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06-08-2011, 07:40 PM   #1
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Apart from A lenses on K5

How do you guys contend with metering on K5 when

1. M and K lenses are being used?
2. a non Pentax split focusing screen is being used?

I switched from Canon bodies to K5 three months ago and I have plenty of problems using manual focus lenses which really surprised me. On Canon, I had none of these problems. Thanks.

06-08-2011, 08:17 PM   #2
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Never used a third-party splitscreen, but the green button works pretty flawlessly otherwise.
06-08-2011, 08:35 PM   #3
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I use some K lenses and just hit the green button. No experience with alternate screens, but a search should find you several threads discussing various screens.
06-08-2011, 09:16 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anthony Lee Quote
How do you guys contend with metering on K5 when

1. M and K lenses are being used?
2. a non Pentax split focusing screen is being used?

I switched from Canon bodies to K5 three months ago and I have plenty of problems using manual focus lenses which really surprised me. On Canon, I had none of these problems. Thanks.
Your split focusing screen is causing your problems. The metering is done right thru the center of the split which really messes up spot metering. Center and matrix metering are less affected.

I used a Katz eye on my K10, K20, chose not to install a split screen on my K5 because i'm doing work that needs more use of the spot metering. I use the focus indicator to tell me when my manual focusing is on.

I'm not sure, but i think some other makes also share this problem. in any case, with Pentax, you need to choose spot metering or the split screen.

06-08-2011, 09:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Your split focusing screen is causing your problems. The metering is done right thru the center of the split which really messes up spot metering. Center and matrix metering are less affected.

I used a Katz eye on my K10, K20, chose not to install a split screen on my K5 because i'm doing work that needs more use of the spot metering. I use the focus indicator to tell me when my manual focusing is on.

I'm not sure, but i think some other makes also share this problem. in any case, with Pentax, you need to choose spot metering or the split screen.
Thanks. That's exactly my experience with a split screen. When I first used an M lens, I had to switch camera to MF and use the green button. The problem is that I am left with the defaulted center weighted average metering. I ended up using Av and AF-S modes with Ev compensation as the lens would not step down. And the split screen makes matter worse. When it's slightly darker, I can't focus. When it's too bright, I also can't use the split. The stock screen is only good for AF. Quite frustrating with all this backward compatibility and unable to use it to the fullest.
06-08-2011, 10:46 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anthony Lee Quote
Thanks. That's exactly my experience with a split screen. When I first used an M lens, I had to switch camera to MF and use the green button. The problem is that I am left with the defaulted center weighted average metering. I ended up using Av and AF-S modes with Ev compensation as the lens would not step down. And the split screen makes matter worse. When it's slightly darker, I can't focus. When it's too bright, I also can't use the split. The stock screen is only good for AF. Quite frustrating with all this backward compatibility and unable to use it to the fullest.
I don't know if you picked up my comment on the focus indicator. It pings when the manual focus ring is turned into focus. It havent done any formal testing but it seems to work from the little i've used it. Using the AF button, one has to hold it down while adjusting manual focus.

best wishes,
06-09-2011, 01:32 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I don't know if you picked up my comment on the focus indicator. It pings when the manual focus ring is turned into focus. It havent done any formal testing but it seems to work from the little i've used it. Using the AF button, one has to hold it down while adjusting manual focus.

best wishes,
The in camera focus confirmation beep is never accurate therefore the catch-in -focus function doesn't help. I hate this function as it locks the shutter until the focus confirmation beeps, and when it's not accurrate it's actually a disadvantage.
06-09-2011, 01:41 AM   #8
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Metering doesn't have much to do with the focusing- here's a how-to: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-lens-articles/110657-how-use-meter...k-x-k-7-a.html


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06-09-2011, 01:50 AM   #9
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Anthony,

M and K lenses meter with the Green Button in M mode. I actually find that its a matter of getting used to. Too bad its not going to be faster than Av mode
At times, it can be an advantage though. In situations where bkgnd color or exposure varies, but actual subject exposure remains largely the same, its quite good not to have to deal with over/under exposure do to the camera being fooled.
(Eg. Night Markets; Indoor events. The bkgnd may be dark or bright depending on where the subject is, but the subject themselves are usually under some sort of illumination where their exposure is actually quite stable)

Eg.



In these 2 shots, I don't really care to exposure for the bkgnd. They would not have mattered much. So exposure actually stays quite stable over the whole walk in Little India.

The thing is to be very aware of the lighting changes around you and meter ahead of the shot. Take a meter from the hand or just meter the surrounding. Then take a trial shot and fudge the exposure from there.

Of course 'A' lenses are much better. In fact, I would suggest you get them over K and M series lenses, as I understand your difficulties in coping to the system change. Generally, the 'A' series should have all the lenses that you require.


I no longer use a split screen. It was a pain getting the split screen to align when it was in tack focus.
Now, I just use the magnifying eyecap and make sure the diopter is 'calibrated', so that what is sharp is sharp.
When I shoot, I just make sure the area I want to focus on looks sharp and I take the photo.
Eg. When the eyelash of a human subject can be seen on my viewfinder, I know its going to be focused there, since my diopter is 'calibrated'

The focusing screens need proper shimming to get it to be precisely tuned. I just did not have the patience to go through doing it.
06-09-2011, 01:57 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anthony Lee Quote
The in camera focus confirmation beep is never accurate therefore the catch-in -focus function doesn't help. I hate this function as it locks the shutter until the focus confirmation beeps, and when it's not accurrate it's actually a disadvantage.
Have to agree with this. In fact I got a suspicion that my K7 did better in this respect.
You can set a 'USER mode' on your mode dial that specifically turns of the indicator.
That is what I have
06-09-2011, 02:29 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Anthony,

M and K lenses meter with the Green Button in M mode. I actually find that its a matter of getting used to. Too bad its not going to be faster than Av mode
At times, it can be an advantage though. In situations where bkgnd color or exposure varies, but actual subject exposure remains largely the same, its quite good not to have to deal with over/under exposure do to the camera being fooled.
(Eg. Night Markets; Indoor events. The bkgnd may be dark or bright depending on where the subject is, but the subject themselves are usually under some sort of illumination where their exposure is actually quite stable)

Eg.



In these 2 shots, I don't really care to exposure for the bkgnd. They would not have mattered much. So exposure actually stays quite stable over the whole walk in Little India.

The thing is to be very aware of the lighting changes around you and meter ahead of the shot. Take a meter from the hand or just meter the surrounding. Then take a trial shot and fudge the exposure from there.

Of course 'A' lenses are much better. In fact, I would suggest you get them over K and M series lenses, as I understand your difficulties in coping to the system change. Generally, the 'A' series should have all the lenses that you require.


I no longer use a split screen. It was a pain getting the split screen to align when it was in tack focus.
Now, I just use the magnifying eyecap and make sure the diopter is 'calibrated', so that what is sharp is sharp.
When I shoot, I just make sure the area I want to focus on looks sharp and I take the photo.
Eg. When the eyelash of a human subject can be seen on my viewfinder, I know its going to be focused there, since my diopter is 'calibrated'

The focusing screens need proper shimming to get it to be precisely tuned. I just did not have the patience to go through doing it.
Jk, appreciate your help. I am throwing away my split screen and go back to the stock screen. What I needed was spot metering when I aim at small subjects like a bird and it was not available when I had the M lens on. Anyway, I have decided to junk my manual focus lenses and stick to AF lenses if I decide to keep the K5. Otherwise, I will go back to Canon to enjoy mf lenses.

Last edited by Anthony Lee; 06-09-2011 at 02:36 AM.
06-09-2011, 06:02 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anthony Lee Quote
The in camera focus confirmation beep is never accurate therefore the catch-in -focus function doesn't help. I hate this function as it locks the shutter until the focus confirmation beeps, and when it's not accurrate it's actually a disadvantage.
Let me explain a little more - i don't ever have to put up with a locked shutter. I disable the half shutter focus and use the af button to do the focusing 95 percent of the time. never have to fight a locked shutter that way. when i click on the shutter it releases immediately.

i also don't shoot at f2.8. always have some dof so focus isn't all that critical as long as the dof covers it.

i'm finding that the focus indicator is working ok for me and is repeatable, still getting used to it, but again, i don't demand that the focus is right on when i don't shoot at f2.8.

I agree with what you are saying about spot focusing. when i shoot stage stuff, i need to not burn out the heads/faces of the actors. spot focusing allows me to do that. thats why i gave up on the split screens, but i understand those that want to use them. different horses for different courses.
06-10-2011, 02:22 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Let me explain a little more - i don't ever have to put up with a locked shutter. I disable the half shutter focus and use the af button to do the focusing 95 percent of the time. never have to fight a locked shutter that way. when i click on the shutter it releases immediately.

i also don't shoot at f2.8. always have some dof so focus isn't all that critical as long as the dof covers it.

i'm finding that the focus indicator is working ok for me and is repeatable, still getting used to it, but again, i don't demand that the focus is right on when i don't shoot at f2.8.

I agree with what you are saying about spot focusing. when i shoot stage stuff, i need to not burn out the heads/faces of the actors. spot focusing allows me to do that. thats why i gave up on the split screens, but i understand those that want to use them. different horses for different courses.
Regardless of the DOF, the focus confirmation when used on a manual focus lens is not as effective as when used on an AF lens simply because an mf lens has a much wider focus throw. Normally one has to understand such intricasy of an mf lens like whether you begin focusing from infinity or from mfd to achieve the correct focus. Anyway, whatever, I am simply very disappointed over the K5 and how it handles mf lenses. It's just not made for this application and the backwards compatitbility advantage can be throw out the window. Canon can handle mf lenses many times better in providing:

1. a special mf focusing screen with in-camera resetting in custom function to accept the screen.
2. provides 4 matrix metering modes, spot, center circle spot, center weighted average and evaluative.
3. at M mode, the matrix rule appears at the top LCD and also the view finder for shutter and aperture selection

I find these 3 aspects absolutely vital in using mf lenses.
06-10-2011, 06:59 AM   #14
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You can always get a Canon Ee-S screen for your K5... That's what I've done, exposure is spot-on at all apertures, and manual focus is a dream...
But you'll still be stuck with Spot and CW only...

Your other problem is that you want to use M lenses in Av metering, and this does not work, as the camera won't stop down the lens in this mode...

Your only solutions are:
- use M mode and the green button
- use Av mode and alter your lenses so as they are always stopped-down ( la m42), but if you often use small apertures you'll have to deal with the darkened viewfinder

To make a M/K lens always stop-down, you have two solutions:
- dumb one : snap or bend the aperture coupler, so the camera does not engage it anymore...
- smart one : drill a new locking groove into your lens so it will lock sooner in the mount (before the aperture lever is engaged).

You can try the smart solution by not locking the lens in the camera, but holding it halfway (don't let it fall!).
The Aperture/Focus guide line should be approx. at a 30 angle, between the mount's red point and the vertical axe of the camera.

The smart solution allows you to use the lens in its original condition if you want to : just use the original locking groove instead of the new one, and the lens will be mounted correctly.

EDIT: you can also check if your M/K lens is compatible with PK/A... Some lenses (usually 3rd party lenses) are in fact compatible, but they lack the contacts.
For instance, I had a Porst 55/1.2 that was in fact a A lens, but lacked the A contact... It behaved quite well in Av mode once proper mods were done.

To check this, it's quite simple:
- ground the recessed A contact of your camera (a little strip of adhesive aluminum would do)
- put your lens at its smallest aperture available.
- check each aperture for proper exposure (all should give you the same brightness)

Last edited by dlacouture; 06-10-2011 at 07:11 AM.
06-10-2011, 09:10 AM   #15
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https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/13842...ml#post1447073

This is how I deal with metering. As for focus, I had a split on the K20d but don't feel the need for it on the K5. I'll typically use Catch in Focus to get the shot.

Collection: Manual Focus

You'll be able to see in the filenames which were taken with both the K7 and K5.

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