Pentax HDR

Northern Soul · 06-27-2011, 08:13 AM

I like it doggy1972 - it doesn't look overdone at all; although I find that as I see more and more HDR images I notice the 'effect' less and less. Yours looks really moody to me.

Inspired by this thread I had a go last night at RSPB Old Moor, which is open until 8pm over summer. HSRtist has over-egged this a bit I think, but there was no way I could have captured anything like this sort of dynamic range without bracketing - this is 5 shots (-4,-2,0,+2,+4) and there are still blown highlights

I had to shoot it JPG because my card is too slow to cope with a 5 shot DNG burst without a pause.

**newmikey** · 06-27-2011, 09:30 AM

Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures...

Docrwm · 06-27-2011, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by newmikey

Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures...

Yes, shots like that where the HDR are functionally invisible are terrific. I really think we need two categories of HDR shots when talking about them.

philbaum · 06-27-2011, 10:21 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ChrisJ

Photomatix Pro Robert.

[/url][/IMG]

It can give a 'wrap around' light effect.

Chris

Chris,
Thank you for this thread!!! I liked your first shot along the sea wall with the flying cloak. Done well, there is a place for all kinds of hdr. The 2nd one i liked was the old man (i should talk

) leaning on the railing. Subtle hdr that does the subject well. heck, they were all good images in my opinion, the 2 i pointed out were significant for what they said about the process.

The picture below was done in 3 bracketed photos, but then when i merged them with photomatix pro, there was ghosting in the tops of the largest trees. When i did the ghost semi auto removal process in photomatix, it left a halo from one of the 3 images in both trees, that wasn't toned exactly as the merged image. So below is a 1 image hdr after much trouble getting there

:

kneonx · 06-27-2011, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by philbaum

Chris,
Thank you for this thread!!! I liked your first shot along the sea wall with the flying cloak. Done well, there is a place for all kinds of hdr. The 2nd one i liked was the old man (i should talk

) leaning on the railing. Subtle hdr that does the subject well. heck, they were all good images in my opinion, the 2 i pointed out were significant for what they said about the process.

The picture below was done in 3 bracketed photos, but then when i merged them with photomatix pro, there was ghosting in the tops of the largest trees. When i did the ghost semi auto removal process in photomatix, it left a halo from one of the 3 images in both trees, that wasn't toned exactly as the merged image. So below is a 1 image hdr after much trouble getting there

:

I like this photo alot

love how HDR doesnt wash out the sky with the foreground in view

Smeggypants · 06-27-2011, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by newmikey

Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures...

Nice shot.

I wouldn't even call it HDR. I think you could enhance the lower half of the building some more without it being HDR

ChrisJ · 06-27-2011, 12:43 PM

Some great images here, you can see from Phil's image how HDR has balanced the sky and forground into similar tones. To get rid of the halos turn down the Strength slider a little, if the sky has grey patches the Highlight Smoothing will get rid of it.

Another tip is if you see 'noise' in highlights such as skies it isn't noise at all but artefacts caused by the compression.

All HDR software uses two levels with their own controls, some are applied purely to the 16bit file it is creating, some are applied to the compression used to re-map pixels from the 32bit Radiant file to the 16bit file.

The first four top ones, Strength, Color Saturation, Luminance. Details Contrast and Lighting Effects all work using compression, to get rid of any artefacts created by this compression turn any of these down notably the Luminance, just enough so they disappear. Turning down the Luminance will get rid of any artefacts in highlights. Compensate by turning up Gamma or increase Brightness in PS, which seems to not loose contrast as much.

All those that work on the 16bit file I prefer to do in PS with Adjustments Layers, these are White and Black Point and Gamma.

Most of the Smoothing options in Advanced seem to mitigate the effects of the first four compression controls.

As an alternative to PM Pro try this newer one, I've had some good results from it.

Oloneo - HDR Software

Chris

mrjamesabels · 06-27-2011, 07:40 PM

Oloneo looks impressive but I use a mac.

Btw you have some great pics!

**newmikey** · 06-28-2011, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by Smeggypants

Nice shot.

I wouldn't even call it HDR. I think you could enhance the lower half of the building some more without it being HDR

Thanks! It is a composite of 5 shots with 1.5 stops difference, tonemapped and all so it definitely qualifies as HDR. It is just the tonemapping operator I use most that succeeds in keeping a "natural" look while still accomplishing an effect that cannot be had with regular processing. The "correctly" exposed shot of this series f.i. has the whitewash upper part of the building almost without texture and the doorway in deep shadow.

I do try to limit myself where it comes to how natural the outcome should look and sometimes I go a bit further than other times. A couple of extreme examples below with two shots tonemapped in a slightly more "grungy" way and the others as natural as possible, almost like using a graduated ND when shooting:

ChrisJ · 06-28-2011, 02:56 AM

No dynamic range issues here, could easily have been taken with one frame, but look how HDR has enhanced the detail. 3 frames +/- 2 stops

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Trains are a really good subject for HDR

[IMG]

[/IMG]

These two shots (and others) were combined to make slides for an AV using the wagon side as a frame.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

These are the kind of subject where the 'gritty' look works at least for me.

woof · 06-28-2011, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by newmikey

Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures...

I think the following photo qualifies in that regard... I specifically used HDR here to bring out fine surface detail under relative strong mid-day sun. I worked and worked to do something similar without HDR and this just really eclipsed those efforts. K10D with F28 f/2.8 btw...

Mike, I always enjoy your stuff very much... your walk in the park is just precisely to my taste...

To the OP... also very much enjoy yours. Some is a bit strong, but the architectural shot on the first page is very nice. Make sure you create a couple of user modes on your K-5. makes it much easier. I have a three shot bracket that I call hand-held HDR and a five shot bracket for tripod use.

woof!

philbaum · 06-28-2011, 12:55 PM

Chris,
Good thread and good discussion. Like that locomotive and that composite on the planks.

Mike,
Nice touch on all your images. Well done.

I don't know if this is the right term, but i think of industrial images as grunge type. Many of these would not get any attention from many people without the hdr treatment, IMO. The artist's shop below was dirty, gray and black as the predominant colors,

. The blacksmith offered to clean it up for me and i begged him not to. After i showed him this picture, he said he understood.

This one is a bit over saturated, i grabbed the wrong image as i have a less sat. version. Anyway, i really like this scene. The blacksmith left me alone in his shop for a long time while he did some errands. He refused to take any payment from me, so i left him a thank-you note with a $20 attached. When they are on private property, hard to gain access to some of these places.

ChrisJ · 06-28-2011, 03:39 PM

Phil,

Just my kind of image for a subject like this, the huge amount of detail captured really makes this look 'super' realistic.

Chris

Snydly · 06-30-2011, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by newmikey

Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures...

Was this done with 'In-Camera' HDR or in post?

Thanks,

Bill

**newmikey** · 06-30-2011, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Snydly

Was this done with 'In-Camera' HDR or in post?

Thanks,

Bill

Post. I shoot a K20D which doesn't have the "in-camera HDR" gimmick which, judging by the results I've seen to date really is a gimmick and nothing else.

I use a specialized piece of software that lets me tweak everything from being able to feed it straight RAWs to selecting the tonemapping algorithm. Finish up in a pixel editor with levels curves, denoise and some sharpening.

06-27-2011, 11:50 AM	#20
kneonx Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Singapore, Farrer Park Posts: 44	Nice :) Originally posted by philbaum Chris, Thank you for this thread!!! I liked your first shot along the sea wall with the flying cloak. Done well, there is a place for all kinds of hdr. The 2nd one i liked was the old man (i should talk ) leaning on the railing. Subtle hdr that does the subject well. heck, they were all good images in my opinion, the 2 i pointed out were significant for what they said about the process. The picture below was done in 3 bracketed photos, but then when i merged them with photomatix pro, there was ghosting in the tops of the largest trees. When i did the ghost semi auto removal process in photomatix, it left a halo from one of the 3 images in both trees, that wasn't toned exactly as the merged image. So below is a 1 image hdr after much trouble getting there : I like this photo alot love how HDR doesnt wash out the sky with the foreground in view

06-28-2011, 02:56 AM	#25
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316 Original Poster	No dynamic range issues here, could easily have been taken with one frame, but look how HDR has enhanced the detail. 3 frames +/- 2 stops [IMG][/IMG] Trains are a really good subject for HDR [IMG][/IMG] These two shots (and others) were combined to make slides for an AV using the wagon side as a frame. [IMG][/IMG] These are the kind of subject where the 'gritty' look works at least for me.

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06-27-2011, 08:13 AM	#16
Northern Soul Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The North of England Photos: Albums Posts: 494	I like it doggy1972 - it doesn't look overdone at all; although I find that as I see more and more HDR images I notice the 'effect' less and less. Yours looks really moody to me. Inspired by this thread I had a go last night at RSPB Old Moor, which is open until 8pm over summer. HSRtist has over-egged this a bit I think, but there was no way I could have captured anything like this sort of dynamic range without bracketing - this is 5 shots (-4,-2,0,+2,+4) and there are still blown highlights I had to shoot it JPG because my card is too slow to cope with a 5 shot DNG burst without a pause.

06-27-2011, 09:30 AM	#17
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,287	Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures...

06-27-2011, 09:44 AM	#18
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by newmikey Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures... Yes, shots like that where the HDR are functionally invisible are terrific. I really think we need two categories of HDR shots when talking about them.

06-27-2011, 10:21 AM - 1 Like	#19
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by ChrisJ Photomatix Pro Robert. [/url][/IMG] It can give a 'wrap around' light effect. Chris Chris, Thank you for this thread!!! I liked your first shot along the sea wall with the flying cloak. Done well, there is a place for all kinds of hdr. The 2nd one i liked was the old man (i should talk ) leaning on the railing. Subtle hdr that does the subject well. heck, they were all good images in my opinion, the 2 i pointed out were significant for what they said about the process. The picture below was done in 3 bracketed photos, but then when i merged them with photomatix pro, there was ghosting in the tops of the largest trees. When i did the ghost semi auto removal process in photomatix, it left a halo from one of the 3 images in both trees, that wasn't toned exactly as the merged image. So below is a 1 image hdr after much trouble getting there :

06-27-2011, 12:22 PM	#21
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by newmikey Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures... Nice shot. I wouldn't even call it HDR. I think you could enhance the lower half of the building some more without it being HDR

06-27-2011, 12:43 PM	#22
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316 Original Poster	Some great images here, you can see from Phil's image how HDR has balanced the sky and forground into similar tones. To get rid of the halos turn down the Strength slider a little, if the sky has grey patches the Highlight Smoothing will get rid of it. Another tip is if you see 'noise' in highlights such as skies it isn't noise at all but artefacts caused by the compression. All HDR software uses two levels with their own controls, some are applied purely to the 16bit file it is creating, some are applied to the compression used to re-map pixels from the 32bit Radiant file to the 16bit file. The first four top ones, Strength, Color Saturation, Luminance. Details Contrast and Lighting Effects all work using compression, to get rid of any artefacts created by this compression turn any of these down notably the Luminance, just enough so they disappear. Turning down the Luminance will get rid of any artefacts in highlights. Compensate by turning up Gamma or increase Brightness in PS, which seems to not loose contrast as much. All those that work on the 16bit file I prefer to do in PS with Adjustments Layers, these are White and Black Point and Gamma. Most of the Smoothing options in Advanced seem to mitigate the effects of the first four compression controls. As an alternative to PM Pro try this newer one, I've had some good results from it. Oloneo - HDR Software Chris

06-27-2011, 07:40 PM	#23
mrjamesabels Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NEW JERSEY USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 198	Oloneo looks impressive but I use a mac. Btw you have some great pics!

06-28-2011, 02:06 AM	#24
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,287	Originally posted by Smeggypants Nice shot. I wouldn't even call it HDR. I think you could enhance the lower half of the building some more without it being HDR Thanks! It is a composite of 5 shots with 1.5 stops difference, tonemapped and all so it definitely qualifies as HDR. It is just the tonemapping operator I use most that succeeds in keeping a "natural" look while still accomplishing an effect that cannot be had with regular processing. The "correctly" exposed shot of this series f.i. has the whitewash upper part of the building almost without texture and the doorway in deep shadow. I do try to limit myself where it comes to how natural the outcome should look and sometimes I go a bit further than other times. A couple of extreme examples below with two shots tonemapped in a slightly more "grungy" way and the others as natural as possible, almost like using a graduated ND when shooting:

06-28-2011, 10:54 AM	#26
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by newmikey Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures... I think the following photo qualifies in that regard... I specifically used HDR here to bring out fine surface detail under relative strong mid-day sun. I worked and worked to do something similar without HDR and this just really eclipsed those efforts. K10D with F28 f/2.8 btw... Mike, I always enjoy your stuff very much... your walk in the park is just precisely to my taste... To the OP... also very much enjoy yours. Some is a bit strong, but the architectural shot on the first page is very nice. Make sure you create a couple of user modes on your K-5. makes it much easier. I have a three shot bracket that I call hand-held HDR and a five shot bracket for tripod use. woof!

06-28-2011, 12:55 PM	#27
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Chris, Good thread and good discussion. Like that locomotive and that composite on the planks. Mike, Nice touch on all your images. Well done. I don't know if this is the right term, but i think of industrial images as grunge type. Many of these would not get any attention from many people without the hdr treatment, IMO. The artist's shop below was dirty, gray and black as the predominant colors, . The blacksmith offered to clean it up for me and i begged him not to. After i showed him this picture, he said he understood. This one is a bit over saturated, i grabbed the wrong image as i have a less sat. version. Anyway, i really like this scene. The blacksmith left me alone in his shop for a long time while he did some errands. He refused to take any payment from me, so i left him a thank-you note with a $20 attached. When they are on private property, hard to gain access to some of these places.

06-28-2011, 03:39 PM	#28
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316 Original Poster	Phil, Just my kind of image for a subject like this, the huge amount of detail captured really makes this look 'super' realistic. Chris

06-30-2011, 05:47 AM	#29
Snydly Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Albums Posts: 242	Originally posted by newmikey Like this for instance? HDR used to accentuate structure and surface textures... Was this done with 'In-Camera' HDR or in post? Thanks, Bill

06-30-2011, 07:45 AM	#30
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,287	Originally posted by Snydly Was this done with 'In-Camera' HDR or in post? Thanks, Bill Post. I shoot a K20D which doesn't have the "in-camera HDR" gimmick which, judging by the results I've seen to date really is a gimmick and nothing else. I use a specialized piece of software that lets me tweak everything from being able to feed it straight RAWs to selecting the tonemapping algorithm. Finish up in a pixel editor with levels curves, denoise and some sharpening.