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06-30-2011, 08:30 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by doggy1972 Quote
Great to know there are some other Pentax shooters around the Sheffield area
Not quite the rare breed I thought! I'm from Sheffield too.

06-30-2011, 09:10 AM   #32
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Nice forge Phil !

Cathedral of Reims 5 photos -4, -2, 0, +2, +4 200-3200 iso with Photomatix



06-30-2011, 10:13 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
Nice forge Phil !

Cathedral of Reims 5 photos -4, -2, 0, +2, +4 200-3200 iso with Photomatix


What lovely pictures of the cathedral!! that unique angle in the second picture adds to the interest.
07-01-2011, 09:22 AM   #34
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interesting thread. what is the best way to do this with k-5? bracketing or in built HDR?

if the subject is moving (breathing) 3 snaps HDR will produce ghost/shake-a-like end result. is there a technique that im missing? faster SD card?

07-01-2011, 12:32 PM   #35
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In my first image, this one

[IMG][/IMG]

There was a gale blowing, everything was moving, the sea, the guy's robes - well everything.

Photomatix handled it all in it's stride.

Chris
07-01-2011, 07:54 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skog Quote
I like the last one best of the three.

Generally though, I view HDR the same way I view makeup; It looks fantastic when you cant see it's been applied.
Yup, I'm with you that last one is my favorite!

Interesting concept about HDR... Actually, it really makes sense. I'm with you there.
07-02-2011, 12:12 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
In my first image, this one

[/url][/IMG]

There was a gale blowing, everything was moving, the sea, the guy's robes - well everything.

Photomatix handled it all in it's stride.

Chris
So is that a single image or 2/3?

And what was your starting point shutter speed. A high shutter speed would really help photomatix maintain the detail on an action scene like this, IMO. Thats the thing about the K5, its capable of faster shutter speeds due to the higher iso among other details. It changes a lot of things about doing hdr, and i'm not talking about the onboard hdr.

Last edited by philbaum; 07-02-2011 at 12:48 AM.
07-02-2011, 01:17 AM   #38
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Using pfstools/pfstmo. Blending is only necessary in scenes with extreme dynamic range. Generally, a single RAW is enough.

It should be noted, that the Pentax in camera "HDR" is merely un-algined exposure blending (meaning, you need a VERY sturdy tripod to get anything close to usable) and then you're stuck with it--and, worse, you're stuck with JPEG. Better to bracket and decide how to treat the image at home in post. The "HDR look" is characteristic of specific tonemapping algorithms--the lack of distinction between tonemapping algorithms results in much confusion in discussions of "HDR". The algorithm used here is Mantiuk'06 (single RAW).


07-02-2011, 03:32 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
So is that a single image or 2/3?

And what was your starting point shutter speed. A high shutter speed would really help photomatix maintain the detail on an action scene like this, IMO. Thats the thing about the K5, its capable of faster shutter speeds due to the higher iso among other details. It changes a lot of things about doing hdr, and i'm not talking about the onboard hdr.
This one is 3 frames 2 stops apart hand held (I rarely carry a tripod due to a bad back) leant against a stone sea-wall. I always use Aperture priority as you don't want DOF changing between frames. They were all at f8 and 200 ISO,

+2 f stops was at 1/200th
on metering was at 1/800th
-2 f stops was at 1/3200th

Chris
07-02-2011, 04:41 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
Using pfstools/pfstmo. Blending is only necessary in scenes with extreme dynamic range. Generally, a single RAW is enough.

It should be noted, that the Pentax in camera "HDR" is merely un-algined exposure blending (meaning, you need a VERY sturdy tripod to get anything close to usable) and then you're stuck with it--and, worse, you're stuck with JPEG. Better to bracket and decide how to treat the image at home in post. The "HDR look" is characteristic of specific tonemapping algorithms--the lack of distinction between tonemapping algorithms results in much confusion in discussions of "HDR". The algorithm used here is Mantiuk'06 (single RAW).
nevermindhim, so do you mean a single snap in RAW file should do the trick? and finalize it in post process.
07-02-2011, 06:22 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote

Tunnel Falls



Using pfstools/pfstmo. Blending is only necessary in scenes with extreme dynamic range. Generally, a single RAW is enough.

It should be noted, that the Pentax in camera "HDR" is merely un-algined exposure blending (meaning, you need a VERY sturdy tripod to get anything close to usable) and then you're stuck with it--and, worse, you're stuck with JPEG. Better to bracket and decide how to treat the image at home in post. The "HDR look" is characteristic of specific tonemapping algorithms--the lack of distinction between tonemapping algorithms results in much confusion in discussions of "HDR". The algorithm used here is Mantiuk'06 (single RAW).
I've found that there are two aspects to a HDR, the way it evens out the light and what it can do with the huge amount of data from 3 bracketed shots. Putting a single image through a HDR program can, within limits, level out the highlights and shadows, but with bracketed shots you also get much more detail too, as in this shot of the wagon side.

[IMG][/IMG]

In your shot the rocks on the cliff face would be much better defined and just have more detail, a more 3D depth effect to them, the water part of the image could be from just one frame of the 3 (as in the Goth's robes in my other pic), if you shoot in Raw it can be any of the 3 (or 5) frames. Both Photomatix and Photoshop CS5 can do this.

There is much more to HDR than just dynamic range, much of it little explored.

Edit: I do agree with you're comments about in camera HDR, it's very dissapointing, you can always get more out of one Raw file using HDR software on a computer with more computing power than that available within a camera. Particularly if you slightly under expose so there are no burnt out pixels if needed.

Chris

Last edited by ChrisJ; 07-02-2011 at 06:31 AM.
07-02-2011, 11:10 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwetiaw Quote
nevermindhim, so do you mean a single snap in RAW file should do the trick? and finalize it in post process.
To clarify, if nothing is blown out in the single RAW that you don't want blown out in the final image, then that one RAW is all you need--and you can avoid some of the extra artifacts that may be introduced by attempting to blend multiple exposures.

The dynamic range of the Pentax KX is around 12.5 EV. The dynamic range of your monitor is something like 8 or 9 EV, so there's definitely something to there to be compressed in just a single well exposed RAW.
07-02-2011, 11:22 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
I've found that there are two aspects to a HDR, the way it evens out the light and what it can do with the huge amount of data from 3 bracketed shots. Putting a single image through a HDR program can, within limits, level out the highlights and shadows, but with bracketed shots you also get much more detail too, as in this shot of the wagon side.

[/url][/IMG]

In your shot the rocks on the cliff face would be much better defined and just have more detail, a more 3D depth effect to them, the water part of the image could be from just one frame of the 3 (as in the Goth's robes in my other pic), if you shoot in Raw it can be any of the 3 (or 5) frames. Both Photomatix and Photoshop CS5 can do this.

There is much more to HDR than just dynamic range, much of it little explored.

Edit: I do agree with you're comments about in camera HDR, it's very dissapointing, you can always get more out of one Raw file using HDR software on a computer with more computing power than that available within a camera. Particularly if you slightly under expose so there are no burnt out pixels if needed.

Chris
Well, I happen to like shadows and global contrast, so I definitely avoid the processing steps that tend to remove them. Unless I have a specific need to bring out someone's retina, I would prefer to skip the -10 EV exposure and leave their pupils black. Information is good, but too much can be unrealistic and visually overwhelming.

Regarding the in-camera HDR, it's not necessarily a lack of computing power, just a misunderstanding about what HDR means between the engineers, marketers, and the public. To the public, HDR means tonemapping. To the engineers, HDR obviously means exposure blending, and to the marketers, HDR means money. If you have a sturdy tripod and can live with the risk of camera vibration ruining the alignment and possible ghosting, then you can certainly use the in camera HDR as a starting point, and apply your own tonemapping process to it in post (the exposure blending has already compressed the dynamic range to fit in that of JPEG). They could have included an (on chip) tonemaping operation in the in camera HDR, but then they would have had to also include settings for it so that some people could get the realistic result they want and others could get the embossed/cartoon look. I think the marketers won on this one, and it ends up being a little on the pointless side.
07-02-2011, 12:04 PM   #44
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Nice shots, well done, I enjoyed. HDR has a place, and if well done as you have shown, provides another view of what is available to us as tools for our work.
Best Regards!
07-02-2011, 12:38 PM   #45
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Anyone that starts out with multiple image HDR usually runs into the speedbump called "ghosting". If one is on a tripod, the most difficult "ghosting" problem is caused by motion somewhere in the scene. In the Gate House image below, the camera was on a tripod, slowest image at 1/15 sec, normal exp at 1/60 and underexplosure at 1/250. Well, the dang flag was ghosted because it was flapping around in the breeze. Well Photomatix has a semi manual ghosting removal mode that involves dragging the cursor around the moving area, then it shows you the 3 options, and you select the version you like the best, and presto, it shows up in final image. Thats why the little flag is ghosted no longer.




So what does one do with a complex moving scene like Chris showed us initially wtih the ocean moving and the robe moving all over the place. Too much to manual deghost.

Well what Chris showed us is that if one is handholding, a fairly fast normal shutter (1/800sec) in his case, and automatic deghosting will produce a good result.

In nevermindhim's Falls picture, he showed how one can solve motion problems by dealing with a single picture, taking advantage of hdr software microcontrast processing but eliminating the ghosting problem between frames. Sure the water came out blurry, but thats not unusual in water pictures. What i liked about the Falls picture is the detail in the cliff around the falls.

I knew about the single frame option, the photomatix semi-manual option, but not Chris's fast shutter option. Very informative thread - thankyou Chris!!!
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