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06-26-2011, 08:03 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
If you are looking for the clearer proof, just compare 77Ltd full frame image vs A50 f1.2 both wide open Day and night difference in terms of sharpness
the DOF is too much tiny to be relevant, as far as i'm concerned. Because 1mm will be sharp, all the rest will be blurred.

My point was to show that basically, there is no visible difference for 99% of people who see both pictures (except bokeh, mostly do to the lense build.)

06-26-2011, 10:03 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
Ok, let's try

Credits : Asahiflex View Profile: Asahiflex - PentaxForums.com

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1474568-post49.html

one is from a 5D and the other is from a K5.

See ? no differences

i got you !



My point is that basically, there is no more "great" difference between a 5D and a K5 for exemple. Use the one that suit you best, not the one that seems the best.

And don't forget to take pictures, instead of discussing about wich one is suppose to be the best body !
The second link to the photos of the boy in the black jacket is hardly a controlled test, as two completely different lenses are used. What we do see is that the Takumar is more contrasty than the DA*55 and has a different color balance. Some or all of the apparent differences could be attributable to post-processing. I'm quite confident that with some adjustment in contrast and clarity, I could get the two images to be nearly identical. But in no way does the 5D image show 1.5 times as much detail as the K-5. That claim is absurd.

Rob
06-26-2011, 12:07 PM   #48
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Now that the point is over, we can go back to the main point : a review between two excellent body.
06-27-2011, 04:51 AM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
All I did, in response to another post in this thread, was make a factual point about smaller sensors having certain advantages over larger ones, ...
That factual point was wrong.

The advantage is not created by a smaller sensor but by a sensor with higher pixel density. If both APS-C and FF sized sensors have the same pixel density (pixel pitch) then an FF crop is exactly equivalent to the image taken by the APS-C sensor.

Smaller sensors do not have a "reach advantage". Higher pixel density sensor have.

06-27-2011, 06:00 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by la_nonna Quote

Resolution with the everyday use lens:

5DMKII+24-105 > 5D+24-105 > K-5+17-70
OUCH! this got me in the achilles heel of me in the first glance but when I see 17-70mm I am relieved a bit, that lens was the only Pentax item I got rid of in no time. I know well Canons 24-105 fella, it's phenomenal, the only Pentax lens I know of can compete with 24-105mm is 77 Ltd. (Unlock Flame Extinguishers, check!).
06-27-2011, 06:09 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
That factual point was wrong.

The advantage is not created by a smaller sensor but by a sensor with higher pixel density. If both APS-C and FF sized sensors have the same pixel density (pixel pitch) then an FF crop is exactly equivalent to the image taken by the APS-C sensor.

Smaller sensors do not have a "reach advantage". Higher pixel density sensor have.
You are technically correct, but since those full frame sensors don't exist yet, then APS-C does have more reach. As pixel density increases on APS-C, full frame has lagged a little, mostly because new sensors are released every three years for full frame, while they come every year to year and a half with APS-C.
06-27-2011, 06:45 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You are technically correct, but since those full frame sensors don't exist yet, then APS-C does have more reach.
An APS-C sized crop from the full frame SONY A900 (10.6MP of 24MP left) has better resolution than my K100D (6MP).

In most of the cases, you are correct. Typically, APS-C sized sensors have higher pixel density. But as the above example demonstrates, there is no advantage for a small sensor.
06-27-2011, 08:21 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
there is no advantage for a small sensor.
in fact there is : iso performance increase a lot every years were it take 3 years for FF.

Helps to sell a lot more DSLR (who said "money money money" ?)

06-27-2011, 11:57 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Some time ago this pictures forced a friend of mine (Pentaxian too) to admit full frame images are sharper.
Then he was confused/fooled by contrast. If you zoom in on the images, you'll note that single hairs from the APS-c sensor occupy narrower swaths of pixels than single hairs on the FF image.

My problem is your insistence that your opinions are fact. I'm completely ok with "I like this look better", but the ridiculous claims about recorded detail just make me crazy.

As far as that goes, I like the look of the Pentax and Nikon sensors FAR more than the Canon sensors. I'd take the K-5 over any Canon sensor. I suspect the breakdown wouldn't have been nearly as clear if it had been a D700 in the comparison; I think they "look" much better.

I'd like to see this same review done with Nikon, rather than Canon. But thanks to the OP for the balanced reporting!
06-27-2011, 12:10 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
Then he was confused/fooled by contrast. If you zoom in on the images, you'll note that single hairs from the APS-c sensor occupy narrower swaths of pixels than single hairs on the FF image.

My problem is your insistence that your opinions are fact. I'm completely ok with "I like this look better", but the ridiculous claims about recorded detail just make me crazy.

As far as that goes, I like the look of the Pentax and Nikon sensors FAR more than the Canon sensors. I'd take the K-5 over any Canon sensor. I suspect the breakdown wouldn't have been nearly as clear if it had been a D700 in the comparison; I think they "look" much better.

I'd like to see this same review done with Nikon, rather than Canon. But thanks to the OP for the balanced reporting!
nicely said, i'd love to see the Nikon D700 (or better added to the mix
for me Nikon is the one brand that calls to me outside Pentax in the DSLR world (or the Film SLR world for that matter)
I've always liked the way they function (aside from the focus going the "wrong" way )
06-27-2011, 01:09 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
nicely said, i'd love to see the Nikon D700 (or better added to the mix
for me Nikon is the one brand that calls to me outside Pentax in the DSLR world (or the Film SLR world for that matter)
I've always liked the way they function (aside from the focus going the "wrong" way )
Oh, I love my Canon film gear (all manual focus; I still think the T90 is the greatest 35mm film camera of all time ); I even liked the EOS stuff quite a bit, and my problem with the current stuff really is just the sensor. I'm fairly brand agnostic (A little chip on my shoulder for being kicked to the curb by Canon ) and I like all the cameras, really. But if I hadda pick just one, it'd be Pentax ( of course ); and if I were to go FF digital, it would be Nikon.
06-27-2011, 02:24 PM   #57
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Ill agree the fd canon gear was nice
Eos though did nothing for me
(the the eye focus gimic was neat)
As for nice mf geat the om series from oly was very nice
Though the af implementation was duperb the minoltas like the 7000 and 9000 were way to complex compared tp the nikons and pentaxs (loved my mz5 when i got it
Would have given my furstborn for an f5 (good thing i never had kids)
06-27-2011, 07:40 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You are technically correct, but since those full frame sensors don't exist yet, then APS-C does have more reach. As pixel density increases on APS-C, full frame has lagged a little, mostly because new sensors are released every three years for full frame, while they come every year to year and a half with APS-C.
Yes, but I think that you are confusing resolution with angle of view. Is it not the same with film as it is with digital sensors? The angle of view for a given focal length depends upon the size of the film frame, but in the case of film, the "pixel density" of the "sensor" is the same, regardless of size. Thus, a 50mm lens on a MF film camera is wide angle, whereas on a 35mm film camera, it is normal. In this situation, you actually can crop the MF frame and get the same resolution and FOV as the 35mm frame.

Rob
06-29-2011, 03:19 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Yes, but I think that you are confusing resolution with angle of view. Is it not the same with film as it is with digital sensors? The angle of view for a given focal length depends upon the size of the film frame, but in the case of film, the "pixel density" of the "sensor" is the same, regardless of size. Thus, a 50mm lens on a MF film camera is wide angle, whereas on a 35mm film camera, it is normal. In this situation, you actually can crop the MF frame and get the same resolution and FOV as the 35mm frame.

Rob
No, I was just responding to the comment that you can crop a full frame image and get the same resolution as an APS-C image. It just isn't true for most full frame cameras versus most APS-C cameras these days. Most current APS-C cameras have between 12 and 18 megapixels, whereas the D700 and D3s have 12 megapixels. Class A responded by saying that he is still shooting a 6 megapixel APS-C camera, in which case, what he says would be accurate.
06-29-2011, 05:06 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
If you zoom in on the images, you'll note that single hairs from the APS-c sensor occupy narrower swaths of pixels than single hairs on the FF image.
How did you manage to zoom them, if they are so small?
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