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07-11-2011, 12:57 PM   #16
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My idea of a K-5 super would be the current K-5 with a 5 year warranty.

Oh, and if they could make the SEL focusing option work with MF lenses, that would be cool.

07-11-2011, 01:27 PM   #17
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i would love to see a K-5 super, especially if it pushes down k-5 prices by a considerable amount
07-11-2011, 01:54 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by adpo Quote
i would love to see a K-5 super, especially if it pushes down k-5 prices by a considerable amount
I wouldn't hope on that since it will be a replacement and stock isn't the way to go these day's (unless your local shop has lots of old stock).
07-11-2011, 11:13 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eagle_Friends Quote
Yea, it seems like Pentax usually stick with the same body for two renditions (K-m and K-x, K10d and K20d) and comes out with a completely new body design.

Gonna be hard to improve the already stellar K7 ergo design though.
I don't think they they will change the body just to keep the pattern if it's a pattern at all.
I believe they changed from K10/20 style to K-7 style for compactness and a more unique design compared to the rest of the market. The entry level body (K-r) were given a similar design (more boxy) when the K-7 turned out to be a winning design.
Maybe adding a ltd-style grip, as mentioned in earlier post, which looks nice although I haven't held one. But nothing radical is to expect to the successor imo.

07-12-2011, 12:03 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
It's july and now with Ricoh taking over Pentax coming october and time running so it will soon be march 2012 when we all would expect a new K-5 successor.

Would it be acceptable when our K-5 would be turned into a K-5 super?
  • Same body and ergonimics.
  • Same sensor.
  • New AF-module with tracking function.
  • New electronics design with PRIME-III processor that is at least twice the speed of our current K-5 and supports UHS-i writespeed.
  • That's it, and good to go to Photokina 2012 where anything new would come.
I think Pentax pulled a rabbit out of their hats with the K-5 in terms of recycling the K-7 body(save on manufacturing costs etc). However, I really don't think it would be feasible to expect to do it again.

The main reason for this would be where Pentax would seek to maximize on revenue and that would also mean tapping into the current market. In which case, they would have to appeal to the existing Prosumer crowd. And that would mean bringing something new and enticing to the table.

My guess would be(as already mentioned), is that Pentax will build on the upcoming 24mp sensor from Sony. Which is(btw) being described as groundbreaking in the APS-C performance stage. To which I would add... the FF market must be very agitated by this given that the upcoming generation of FF sensors will not come from the same process. And so I'm wondering how close the gap will be between the latest 24mp sensor and the upcoming FF ones?

Anyways, I think were looking at the following spec for the K-3(loosely);
  • Slightly larger body(cough cough)
  • 24MP sensor
  • ISO80-ISO102400
  • Higher DR, lower noise threshold(closer to Dx3)
  • xDHC compliance(faster I/O)
  • 8fps/5fps/3fps drive
  • 27 RAW frame buffer, 42JPG(infinite @ 5fps)
  • Improved AF
  • Improved LV
  • Better HD video recording (with AF and manual)
Well that's my guess anyways
07-12-2011, 01:54 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Anyways, I think were looking at the following spec for the K-3(loosely);
  • Slightly larger body(cough cough)
  • 24MP sensor
  • ISO80-ISO102400
  • Higher DR, lower noise threshold(closer to Dx3)
  • xDHC compliance(faster I/O)
  • 8fps/5fps/3fps drive
  • 27 RAW frame buffer, 42JPG(infinite @ 5fps)
  • Improved AF
  • Improved LV
  • Better HD video recording (with AF and manual)
Well that's my guess anyways
Well all but your first could fit in the current K-5 body! So that is a lot of work and budget spending on the design. Wouldn't it be a good thing to just put all of that in the same body and as said earlier getting more third party options (like deepsea tank). Another bigger and newer body could come later, when and if that would fit a Full Frame sensor.

I like your list. Only your buffer calculation will be different wen the new PRIME III engine is fast enough.

PRIME III engine:
  • This is for new K-5 Super/K-3/645D.
  • It should support 645D RAW (60 MB/s data) at 1.1 fps with no limit.
  • It should support K-5 (16 megapixel) JPG *** at 7 fps (52 MB/s data).
  • It should support HD 1080i movie *** at 60 fps.
  • It should suppoert HDwide 2560x1080 *** at 30 fps.
  • It should run lenscorrections without long waiting.
The enourmous data to store is only managed when SDHC UHS-I is fast enough to handle that data, but a new processor should be ready for that.
07-12-2011, 02:09 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The enourmous data to store is only managed when SDHC UHS-I is fast enough to handle that data, but a new processor should be ready for that.
Given the production costs of NAND due to the prevalance of SSDs now - think its feasible yet they could buffer to a 32G or 64G (128, 256Gb) working cache internally, using high-speed bus/protocol and then dump-to-disk when idle or at least in a non-blocking way otherwise ?

Or make a big SSD the included storage device, with slots for SDXC for expansion/off-site-backup ?

QuoteQuote:
In November 2010, Fusion-io has released its highest performing SSD drive named ioDrive Octal utilising PCI-Express x16 Gen 2.0 interface with storage space of 5.12TB and Read speed of 6.0GB/s and write speed of 4.4GB/s and a low latency of 30 microseconds. It has 1.19M Read 512 byte IOPS and 1.18M Write 512 byte IOPS.[87]
As long as the internal drive was 'replaceable' (as opposed to removeable like a card) then it wouldn't matter about read/write cycles etc...

??
07-12-2011, 05:44 AM   #23
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I wouldn't buy a K5 Super. I shall buy the next model with upgraded sensor for even better high ISO and dynamic range performance. I expect that will also include a much better and quicker AF system

However I'm not interested in more megapixels although I understand that bigger numbers please those who think bigger numbers are better

07-12-2011, 06:08 AM   #24
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I'm just going to stay perfectly happy with the K5 for a couple of years....it will take me that long just to get very comfortable with all it can do.

My guess, and it is just that, is that Ricoh will make a radical leap in the next Flagship model....something unexpected and unpredictable. They are not exactly an "ordinary" thinking company, so I expect a big surprise.

Meanwhile, I have the right camera, and will try to take advantage of the time between models to become a better shooter........you guys have all seen my "work" and can all agree that is a great idea!

Best Regards
07-12-2011, 06:18 AM   #25
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Just because it's owned by RIcoh doesn't mean Pentax is suddenly flooded with new people that don't know how to manufacture K-5. I'm pretty sure the whole team is still with Pentax, just the top guns and key leaders might have changed, so it will wffect the direction of new bodies. I'm sure the K-5 successor is already in the works when K-5 was released, so the new ownership will probably not affect it negatively.
07-12-2011, 06:25 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
My guess, and it is just that, is that Ricoh will make a radical leap in the next Flagship model....something unexpected and unpredictable. They are not exactly an "ordinary" thinking company, so I expect a big surprise.
That is my expectation to and I'm delighted with image quality from my K-5's. So just fixing things that are shortcoming in K-5 would be great to run the model a year longer.


About the bigger buffer:
That is a nice future, but when I run my buffer full with 24 RAW pictures in my K-5 it takes in total some 32 seconds (from starting to finish) before it is ready for reviewing and changing things and starting again. A bigger buffer would give you space to make more pictures, but it will take a hole minute or longer to clear the buffer and present those pictures. So there is a need for faster processing.
07-12-2011, 07:18 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
About the bigger buffer: That is a nice future, but when I run my buffer full with 24 RAW pictures in my K-5 it takes in total some 32 seconds (from starting to finish) before it is ready for reviewing and changing things and starting again. A bigger buffer would give you space to make more pictures, but it will take a hole minute or longer to clear the buffer and present those pictures. So there is a need for faster processing.
Always a need for faster processing...
But part of the reason we hit the buffer is that it currently is designed to fill a portion of memory - 24 RAW shots is only going to be 1-2GB's you see. This sizing also lines up with the 40 or so JPG's it can do... Once that fills, the current OS in the camera (I believe its a RealOS derivative?) then writes it out to the SD card. The 'review picture' process then hits the SD card to display the picture. The ethos is 'get it on something reliable ASAP'

If they had a *larger* internal buffer, that was non-volatile - as I said, 32GB, 64, Bigger and was non-blocking in operation, then it wouldn't need to be 'faster' as the limiting factor is the SD card read/write and the need to read/write from that SD use FAT filesystems.

So you take a picture (or 100). It gets dumped to this internal "SSD". The RealOS in the camera can then immediately display/review the picture - separate threads are also able to almost instantly access the image for Lens Correction etc.

Then - in the background, a separate thread could write the SSD out to the SD card - if its plugged in - or otherwise leaves it stored in the SSD for later USB transfer.

All the while you'd be able to keep filling this large SSD... It can then also use a proprietary, or at least more efficient file system than FAT... as it only needs to be accesible/replaceable, not 'portable' like an SD card...

This eliminates the massive bottleneck at the moment of having to write the images to the slow SD card which it needs to do due to the seemingly small onboard volatile RAM it currently uses as a buffer (and its obviously volatile, as it wipes when the camera loses power). Whereas if they had an internal 'reliable' (read non-volatile) memory that was high-speed they could leave it in the buffer 'straight outta sensor' and work with it there.. ... I'd be almost certain the current onboard processor could massively improve its 'apparent' performance... since I'm sure the bottle neck is this blocking operation as it writes from volatile-to-permanent-storage...

Apologies if I'm talking out my arse!

Last edited by adr1an; 07-12-2011 at 08:01 AM.
07-12-2011, 07:42 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
Apologies if I'm talking out my arse!
Your story sounds good and I hope it is valid, since it is beyond my knowledge.

Any idea why no camera manufaturer uses it?

Currently I switch from RAW to jpg when I'm in a situation that I do not want my camera the thing that holds me back. So for outdoor sports, that is no problem since the jpg's are very well from IQ, but indoors with hi-iso there is a different matter.
07-12-2011, 07:47 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Any idea why no camera manufaturer uses it?
Best guess - Up until '09 they weren't cheap and fast - its really only the past 2 years they've reached a commodity level in the PC market, which drove down the price of production and the speeds/capacities have increased as a result. The reality of cheap, fast flash has only happened recently relative to say... Pentax-Q development starting...

Before say 09 - it would have added massive dollars to the camera's price...

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Currently I switch from RAW to jpg when I'm in a situation that I do not want my camera the thing that holds me back.
Probably due to my thoughts above - you can cram more into the small onboard existing RAM and it also is much quicker writing the smaller files to the SD card (as they read and write in usually 512b blocks.... more blocks == more time).

The onboard processor has no issues compressing JPGs with speed OR rendering a Raw file - pretty processor intensive - so again I truly believe the bottle neck is the volatile to non-volatile choke point I outlined...

Last edited by adr1an; 07-12-2011 at 08:06 AM.
07-12-2011, 08:06 AM   #30
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IMHO the K-5 was the K-7 Super, just like the K20D was an update to the K10D (although admittedly the impact of the K-5 was bigger than that of the K20D).

For the next camera, I think they will redesign the body. Not that the current design is bad or inadequate (on the contrary!), nor do I have a need for a body update, but historically it seems logical. It's also probably gonna get another sensor update, as well as more advanced video functionality. I also don't need that, but then I don't think I'm an average K-5 user.

The following upgrades would be welcome imho:
- Improved autofocus, hopefully with a stabilized sensor unit, preferably with tracking mode and more AF points (20-30 would be nice). I'd be very surprised if the AF wasn't upgraded at all this time around.
- Talking about stabilisation, maybe SR2 with more reach to stabilise. This would also allow for more innovative features, like rotating around the focus point while exposing (creating a circular effect around the focus point).
- A new viewfinder (I've looked through the EOS 7D's VF and that's great) with transmissive LCD that displays the AF points at their actual size.
- An updated menu system. Not that it's necessary, but I think it makes sense.

I have one other request: in-camera virtual horizon calibration. If Pentax cannot properly align the horizons themselves, at least give users the ability to do so.

Other than that, lenses lenses lenses. And a faster and more accurate SDM.
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