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08-02-2011, 06:20 AM - 1 Like   #151
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I don't care anymore.....You guys with all the reasons not to buy a K5....just don't buy one.....how simple is that?
Meanwhile the vast, and yes,vast is the correct word, majority of K5 owners are absolutely thrilled with their K5 and report few if any problems. Why should we care if you miss out on all the great features and almost unbelievable abilities of the K5 while we enjoy ours at every opportunity?

I look daily at the K5 photo thread...and ask myself how a camera that won't function takes so many amazing photos? Must be some sort of K5 Magic....you think?

I see a lot of guys here that would turn down a night with the best looking girl in town...because when she woke up one morning last week she looked a little rough around the edges....or turn down a block of pure gold because it had a nick in the corner.
Living the life of a perfectionist must be very miserable, always asking yourself, "why do I keep missing all the fun in life?"

Regards!

08-02-2011, 06:47 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I don't care anymore.....You guys with all the reasons not to buy a K5....just don't buy one.....how simple is that?
Meanwhile the vast, and yes,vast is the correct word, majority of K5 owners are absolutely thrilled with their K5 and report few if any problems. Why should we care if you miss out on all the great features and almost unbelievable abilities of the K5 while we enjoy ours at every opportunity?

I look daily at the K5 photo thread...and ask myself how a camera that won't function takes so many amazing photos? Must be some sort of K5 Magic....you think?

I see a lot of guys here that would turn down a night with the best looking girl in town...because when she woke up one morning last week she looked a little rough around the edges....or turn down a block of pure gold because it had a nick in the corner.
Living the life of a perfectionist must be very miserable, always asking yourself, "why do I keep missing all the fun in life?"

Regards!
I tend to agree with you-----even though I'm relegated to using my K10 because
my K5 is at CHRIS over flopping issues. the tone of the complaining is far more negative than need be.
08-02-2011, 07:48 AM - 1 Like   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
  • Sensor stains (seems to be a thing of the past, but was an issue and is somewhat indicative of the quality of QC).
  • flash overexposure bug (still not fixed).
  • AF low light issue (only partially addressed).
  • Sticky shutter (requires banging hard against the camera to unstick it).
  • Mirror flopping.
  • Lens release button falling off.
  • Wheels not working (seems to be more prevalent with the K-r but also occurs with the K-5).
  • Camera sometimes just freezes.
  • Camera dies.
Did I forget anything?

If it hadn't been for all these issues, leading one to think that getting a good copy is a bit of a gamble, I would have bought a K-5 already (Local prices here are so prohibitive, I cannot just walk into a shop and bring the camera back, should it be a lemon). I went for a new lens instead. I'm pretty sure I'll get a K-5 someday but the urgency level dropped with every new report of unresolved issues.
Here's my current list of K5 problems:

NONE

Bought in Feb 2011, best camera i've ever had.

According to Hoya, Pentax ships 25,000 units each quarter, its been estimated about 5000 units or 20% of the total are K5's.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i've only read one report of a button falling off out of 10,000 cameras shipped this year - does it belong on the list????

The current "prevalent" problem seems to be mirror flopping. I estimate i've read about a dozen reports, let's double that for the sake of discussion. Thats 0.25%

Stains, lowlight focusing, overexposure seems to be history. My motto is: don't be an early adopter, they've got more guts than i do. I understand your issue in New Zealand - not sure the answer.

Best wishes,
08-02-2011, 08:02 AM   #154
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I don't have statistics, though I find no fault in those...they sound reasonable to me. What I can tell you as an absolute indisputable fact is that I would be miserable if I had to give up my K5 ...and I would bet any amount someone cares to lose, that I am no where close to being alone.
Regards!

08-02-2011, 10:50 AM - 1 Like   #155
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Good analogy. However, think of the the K7 as the 2nd cutest (smartest?) girl that, unlike the K5, just never says no to whatever you ask her to do ....




And, at least in my opinion, it's the photographer, not the camera that makes a great pic ... but to each his own.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I don't care anymore.....You guys with all the reasons not to buy a K5....just don't buy one.....how simple is that?
Meanwhile the vast, and yes,vast is the correct word, majority of K5 owners are absolutely thrilled with their K5 and report few if any problems. Why should we care if you miss out on all the great features and almost unbelievable abilities of the K5 while we enjoy ours at every opportunity?

I look daily at the K5 photo thread...and ask myself how a camera that won't function takes so many amazing photos? Must be some sort of K5 Magic....you think?

I see a lot of guys here that would turn down a night with the best looking girl in town...because when she woke up one morning last week she looked a little rough around the edges....or turn down a block of pure gold because it had a nick in the corner.
Living the life of a perfectionist must be very miserable, always asking yourself, "why do I keep missing all the fun in life?"

Regards!
08-02-2011, 11:53 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
What I can tell you as an absolute indisputable fact is that I would be miserable if I had to give up my K5 ...and I would bet any amount someone cares to lose, that I am no where close to being alone.
Regards!
To tell you the truth, I am miserable, I just sent my K5 in for repair today. I miss it already, wish I had not let its older brother go last year (ist DS), at least I would have a DSLR to use now.
08-02-2011, 02:47 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I don't see anything in your list that would keep me from buying one right now.
The list wasn't meant to detract people from buying a K-5. You won't find a thread created by me in which I warn people to get a K-5. On the contrary, I'm recommending the K-5 to anyone who asks for my opinion on DSLRs. Furthermore, I'll most likely get a K-5 myself sometime in the future.

The list was provided in response to a question of what "widespread issues" there might be with the K-5.

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
It's not even close to the Canon 1D III fiasco, which was a $4500 camera body.
I'm curious: What where these Canon 1D III problems?

As a matter of fact, though, QC problems do not become better because one can point at worse examples. I don't think Pentax themselves are happy about the unfortunate list of problems the camera has been associated with recently.
08-02-2011, 03:07 PM - 1 Like   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
As a matter of fact, though, QC problems do not become better because one can point at worse examples. I don't think Pentax themselves are happy about the unfortunate list of problems the camera has been associated with recently.
I agree with this completely, and, also, your list agrees with mine, although I had "return of sensor stain" added.

But HOLY COW! I just looked at your photostream. Anyone who takes photos like you do with a K100D has no need of any other camera. You are obviously having a little bit of fun with your "old and obsolete camera", aren't you. I bet even Otis would love to have you come around and take his portrait!!!

08-02-2011, 03:12 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I don't care anymore.....
Don't promise what you cannot hold.
I'm sure we'll see many "The K-5 isn't as bad as you guys say" posts from you in the future, won't we?

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
You guys with all the reasons not to buy a K5....just don't buy one.....
Done.

Are you saying, beyond that, we must not explain our decision to others? Also note that I'm not saying the K-5 is a bad camera -- on the contrary it is a great camera. Unfortunately for many, it has issues that get in the way. Just because you are not affected, doesn't mean these issues don't exist or do not mar the greatness of the K-5.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Why should we care if you miss out on all the great features and almost unbelievable abilities of the K5 while we enjoy ours at every opportunity?
I don't understand. If you don't care, you don't care. No one takes issue with that, AFAIC.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I look daily at the K5 photo thread...and ask myself how a camera that won't function takes so many amazing photos? Must be some sort of K5 Magic....you think?
Forum member vw_michael hit the nail on the head. Photographers create magic, not tools. Magical images have been created with the K100D. I really don't get this "I cannot be without my K-5 for a day / it is magical" business. It is just a DSLR. A bit better than the K-7 but no one declared their love affair with a K-7 like posters do with the K-5. In the vast majority of scenarios a K-7 is not worse than a K-5, yet some K-5 owners romanticise about the K-5 as if it were a revolutionary product. What's all that about?

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I see a lot of guys here that would turn down a night with the best looking girl in town...because when she woke up one morning last week she looked a little rough around the edges....or turn down a block of pure gold because it had a nick in the corner.
There is often a big difference between "what one sees" and "what is".

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Here's my current list of K5 problems:

NONE
Good for you! I really mean it. And I'm convinced there are thousand photographers like you. They don't have an issue.

That, unfortunately, doesn't mean that there aren't people who are frustrated with the issues they have with the K-5. Note also that there are some issues which are common to all K-5s. You don't run into them, but to others they matter.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i've only read one report of a button falling off out of 10,000 cameras shipped this year - does it belong on the list????
I don't know. Maybe it was a singular occurrence that doesn't belong on the list. I think I've seen more than one report, but I don't care enough to search all of the forum. People shouldn't take the list too seriously. It was just meant as a response to an implied statement along the lines of "There aren't any issues, are there?".

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
The current "prevalent" problem seems to be mirror flopping. I estimate i've read about a dozen reports, let's double that for the sake of discussion. Thats 0.25%
If you are affected, it will be frustrating. It doesn't help much to know that in the grand scheme of things the failure rate is still acceptable (which is incidentally what Pentax claims about the SDM issue, yet it has been detracting numerous buyers from considering an SDM zoom). I haven't tried to validate your statistics, because the exact numbers do not matter to me. There are sufficiently many posts to suggest that the problem is of a systematic nature. Unless Pentax identifies the source of the problem and fixes it there will be many more frustrated K-5 owners.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Stains, lowlight focusing, overexposure seems to be history.
Stains: yes.
The other two issues still exist. You may not run into them or might be using workarounds (flash exposure compensation) but the issues still exist.

Best wishes to you as well.
08-02-2011, 03:26 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by snofox Quote
But HOLY COW! I just looked at your photostream.
Thanks heaps!

I won't deny that I'm craving for a K-5 but you are right, the K100D is sufficiently good for me almost all of the time and I'm having heaps of fun with it. Great little piece of equipment and it never needed anyone to create a "No K100D complaints -- Only K100D praise here" thread.

Snofox, your post made my day.
Thank you!!!
08-02-2011, 06:05 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
yet some K-5 owners romanticise about the K-5 as if it were a revolutionary product. What's all that about?


I was reading in your reply, and not knowing your situation, was asking myself...how can this guy have a K5 and be saying such things? It just doesn't make sense, unless he does not have a K5...then I read your next post and see where you don't yet have a K5, so now I feel better! You just have to shoot with a K5 to understand the "magic"......and when you get one, you will be singing the same tune as the rest of us, no doubt about it.

A couple of points still.....the K100 is one of the finest cameras Pentax has made, I have recommended it to several friends in the past, and every one thanks me every time I see them. You are also correct that the shooter is the main ingredient in photography....and while I am the same old shooter I always was, there is a different feel and sensation when using the K5...and the "fun factor" is enormous. May not be important to everyone, but if you like to have fun while you shoot, the K5 is a dream camera to use.
People can do what they like.....I'm fine with that, but I don't want to be without my K5, and if it fails I will get a new one while it is being repaired........I am thoroughly addicted!

Best Regards!
08-02-2011, 06:47 PM   #162
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QuoteQuote:
... yet some K-5 owners romanticise about the K-5 as if it were a revolutionary product. What's all that about?
Much like the Limiteds :-)

QuoteQuote:
"No K100D complaints -- Only K100D praise here" thread.
Well, there is that embarrassingly noisy shutter - my only complaint.

Luckily my only K-5 issue has been the occasional (5 times) hang up, remedied by removing and re-installing the battery. But not once during my 12-day vacation...or since.

Last edited by SpecialK; 08-03-2011 at 03:24 PM.
08-02-2011, 07:05 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The list wasn't meant to detract people from buying a K-5. You won't find a thread created by me in which I warn people to get a K-5. On the contrary, I'm recommending the K-5 to anyone who asks for my opinion on DSLRs. Furthermore, I'll most likely get a K-5 myself sometime in the future.

The list was provided in response to a question of what "widespread issues" there might be with the K-5.


I'm curious: What where these Canon 1D III problems?

As a matter of fact, though, QC problems do not become better because one can point at worse examples. I don't think Pentax themselves are happy about the unfortunate list of problems the camera has been associated with recently.
I still question the use of the term "widespread." That might be the impression on enthusiast forums where issues, more negative than positive, usually get aired, but I still think the percentages of problems are about average for most new camera releases.

The Canon 1DIII as I understand it basically couldn't focus very well on any kind of moving subject... and that was a 100% screw up, I beleive they ALL were bad. But I could be wrong.

"QC problems do not become better because one can point at worse examples." Nor do QC problems become CATASTROPHIC because 100 people out 50,000 owners make a lot of noise on a forum.

It's all speculation and no one really knows the extent of the problem, which is probably much smaller then the negative posters around here would probably believe.

Again, saying "widespread" is pure speculation and probably wrong.
08-02-2011, 09:02 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I still question the use of the term "widespread." That might be the impression on enthusiast forums where issues, more negative than positive, usually get aired, but I still think the percentages of problems are about average for most new camera releases.

The Canon 1DIII as I understand it basically couldn't focus very well on any kind of moving subject... and that was a 100% screw up, I beleive they ALL were bad. But I could be wrong.

"QC problems do not become better because one can point at worse examples." Nor do QC problems become CATASTROPHIC because 100 people out 50,000 owners make a lot of noise on a forum.

It's all speculation and no one really knows the extent of the problem, which is probably much smaller then the negative posters around here would probably believe.

Again, saying "widespread" is pure speculation and probably wrong.
You are probably right......I doubt there are as many problems as it might appear here at times. Regardless, I think it is noteworthy that a huge majority of those that do report problems still praise their K5 and want it repaired or to get another one. If it was not as spectacular as guys like me claim, we would not see this kind of dedication to a camera that had caused them inconvenience and distress,would we?
I don't take notes, keep counts, write down any names, etc...not my style...but I do note that those that get the K5 never complain that we led them in the wrong direction or that Otis pulled their leg. Instead, I hear amazement and some real honest and true enthusiasm about their K5. ....nuff said!

Best Regards!
08-02-2011, 10:05 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
You just have to shoot with a K5 to understand the "magic"...
So what is the "magic" or what is it created by?

If people here came from a P&S and upgraded to a 645D I could understand the enthusiasms and the use of adjectives such as "spectacular". But most here have had K20Ds or K-7s before. The K-5 has the same sensor size and in most situations the dynamic range advantage is not important. It might lock focus a bit quicker and the shutter noise is a bit different but what is "spectacular"? Why would the fun factor (which I experience with my K100D) be higher compared to a K-7?

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I still question the use of the term "widespread."
Some of the issues in that list apply to 100% of the cameras. Owners may not hit them or work around them, but they are there.
Some others might refer to very few occurrences that are not worth losing sleep over (e.g., the lens release button).
The rest refers to issues that have occurred sufficiently often to concern someone interested in buying a K-5. I, for example, would have to make sure that either my seller takes care of the shipping costs during warranty repairs or that I buy so cheap that I can afford to add all the shipping costs later on.

Note also that some might depend on the camera to work for a certain period of time and cannot afford to have it in repair. Or they just don't want to lose warranty time while the camera is in repair (and service centres are trying to figure out how to reproduce and repair mirror flapping, for instance).

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
The Canon 1DIII as I understand it basically couldn't focus very well on any kind of moving subject... and that was a 100% screw up, I beleive they ALL were bad.
Well, that's one issue. This can happen. Happened with the K-7 (green line syndrome) and the K-5 (sensor stains) as well. Shouldn't happen but if taken care of appropriately (like the sensor stain issue) then that's OK.

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
"QC problems do not become better because one can point at worse examples." Nor do QC problems become CATASTROPHIC because 100 people out 50,000 owners make a lot of noise on a forum.
Who said something about "CATASTROPHIC"?
Neither of us knows the numbers. There will also be people with issues who will just return their camera and never write a post here.
Issues like the mirror flapping are not the problem of a few people who's camera copy had a rough ride during shipping. They are caused by a systematic manufacturing problem that needs to be addressed before anyone can buy with reasonable confidence or just expects the higher than usual possibility of a warranty return.

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
It's all speculation and no one really knows the extent of the problem, which is probably much smaller then the negative posters around here would probably believe.
It might be bigger, who knows. Maybe some K-5 copies operating fine now will develop "mirror flapping" some time later. Who knows?

I certainly know that the K20D did not come with this saga of teething problems. The K-7 was a bit worse with its green line syndrome (was fixed) and the shutter blur issue (could not be fixed). The K-5 already went through a number of fixes (sensor stains, buffer problem, heavy low light AF problem) but still has many issues to its name (including a reduced but not fixed low light AF problem).

No one can expect perfection but to the best of my knowledge the K100D never had any widespread issues (flaws are "as designed") and the K10D maybe had a crooked viewfinder once in a while. As I wrote earlier, if the K-5 had started its life with a fault history like the K100D/K10D/K20D then I would have bought one already. As things were, I splashed out for a lens (FA 77/1.8) and started saving again.

N.B., I don't think the term "negative posters" is appropriate. I don't think that some people just like to spread negativity for no good reason. The vast majority of these people have good reason to be frustrated and just report their stories.
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