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08-03-2011, 07:39 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by sagiboy Quote
Good Old Rupert...lucky again....!!!!!
Better than being unlucky! I'll take it anytime! If it will make you happy, I do have a DA*50-135......great IQ....the SDM sucks Big Time.......hope that makes you feel a little better?

Best Regards!

BTW-Otis taught me a new way to locate something I want to check out later.....Earmarks! When he is short of time and can't answer a Squirrel's question or give him some of his famous advice...he just earmarks him for later..... I could do a lot of earmarking around here.......

[IMG] [/IMG]

08-03-2011, 10:17 AM   #182
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Hey guys and gals,
I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing.

We like the progress the K5 has made, we dislike the QC problems along the way.

I think the K5's problems have been stressful for us all. I've even wondered whether the staining issue was the last straw for Hoya before them deciding to sell Pentax off. Just idle speculation.

And i don't mean to belittle any of the problems that folks are having with their cameras, i'm sure they are frustrating as hell. They do have me concerned enough that i'm keeping my K20 around just in case ... And i don't mean to belittle any former camera models ... if i were a bit more normal, i could be more than happy with them , its just that the dark side beckons...

But don't tell me that most camera enthusiasts aren't a bit nutty about their equipment. Look at how on a daily basis, folks are going on and on about the merits of a particular lens or film type or the ongoing debate over full frame camera bodies. No, this phenomena is not limited to the K5 by any means.

But with all its warts, i still like my K5. I find a lot of irony that folks are now pushing the ideas that the next flag bearer is going to be a K3 with 24 megapixel or a FF with 39 megapixels in it. While my conservative self is saying - no - lets fix the system first .

I was watching the City Island movie last night where a class of acting students were given the assignment to do a monologue on their "deepest darkest secret" at the next meeting. The male actor says to his partner: Why do i need to have a deepest secret? She answers: "Because you wouldn't aspire to acting if you didn't have one" Maybe there's a corollary to photography in this

Best wishes,

Last edited by philbaum; 08-03-2011 at 10:22 AM.
08-03-2011, 11:35 AM   #183
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I only purchased one extended warranty in my life. And that was when I bought a K-5.

If it breaks I'll just get it fixed. And you won't hear me bitch. What more can you do?

(My K-5 has been flawless so far. About 750 clicks).
08-03-2011, 12:52 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Hey guys and gals,
I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing.

We like the progress the K5 has made, we dislike the QC problems along the way.

I think the K5's problems have been stressful for us all. I've even wondered whether the staining issue was the last straw for Hoya before them deciding to sell Pentax off. Just idle speculation.

And i don't mean to belittle any of the problems that folks are having with their cameras, i'm sure they are frustrating as hell. They do have me concerned enough that i'm keeping my K20 around just in case ... And i don't mean to belittle any former camera models ... if i were a bit more normal, i could be more than happy with them , its just that the dark side beckons...

But don't tell me that most camera enthusiasts aren't a bit nutty about their equipment. Look at how on a daily basis, folks are going on and on about the merits of a particular lens or film type or the ongoing debate over full frame camera bodies. No, this phenomena is not limited to the K5 by any means.

But with all its warts, i still like my K5. I find a lot of irony that folks are now pushing the ideas that the next flag bearer is going to be a K3 with 24 megapixel or a FF with 39 megapixels in it. While my conservative self is saying - no - lets fix the system first .

I was watching the City Island movie last night where a class of acting students were given the assignment to do a monologue on their "deepest darkest secret" at the next meeting. The male actor says to his partner: Why do i need to have a deepest secret? She answers: "Because you wouldn't aspire to acting if you didn't have one" Maybe there's a corollary to photography in this

Best wishes,
OK...so I shoot Squirrels by day and trap them by night......BBQ them, stew them, and roast them over an open flame......you won't mention this to Otis....will you?

As for our whining and speculation.....The world is in turmoil, economies are collapsing, people are in debt and/or struggling to survive, and the forecast is not bright most anywhere on earth. Yet here we are all wrapped up in camera talk and worried over what camera comes next, or what is best or isn't...we must be some of the luckiest guys on earth!

Best Regards!

08-03-2011, 03:22 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
As for our whining and speculation.....The world is in turmoil, economies are collapsing, people are in debt and/or struggling to survive, and the forecast is not bright most anywhere on earth. Yet here we are all wrapped up in camera talk and worried over what camera comes next, or what is best or isn't...we must be some of the luckiest guys on earth!

Best Regards!
Rupert, don't lose sight of the fact that this is a Camera forum and there are real problems with the cameras that some of us own. Yours is perfect? Great.. happy for you.. you've made your happiness abundantly clear.

As for your obsession with squirrels.....

I suppose if I was interested in discussing the fine art of shooting or trapping squirrels we could meet on another forum that is all about shooting and or trapping and cooking squirrels... but Pentax does not make squirrels.. do they?
08-03-2011, 04:01 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Radcliffe Quote
Rupert, don't lose sight of the fact that this is a Camera forum and there are real problems with the cameras that some of us own. Yours is perfect? Great.. happy for you.. you've made your happiness abundantly clear.

As for your obsession with squirrels.....

I suppose if I was interested in discussing the fine art of shooting or trapping squirrels we could meet on another forum that is all about shooting and or trapping and cooking squirrels... but Pentax does not make squirrels.. do they?
Exactly my point....if you are hungry, your family is hungry, you are jobless and/or homeless, it is unlikely you are here worried about your camera...if under those circumstances, you even have a camera. So yes indeed, I would say we are fortunate souls...you think?

As for Squirrels, I do feel for those that are Squirrel deprived, and if you are feeling a little left out there, just drop me a line and I will send you a box full of them!

Not belittling your problems or anyone elses....you haven't seen me doing that....because I haven't. Best wishes for all to have their problems quickly resolved.
Regards!
08-04-2011, 11:17 AM   #187
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I hope they get something figured out soon.

QuoteQuote:
Matthew P: Thank you for contacting Pentax chat support, how may I help you?

Jim Saueressig: A couple of questions.

Jim Saueressig: On the k-5 have they figured out the cause of the mirror flop that is affecting many people including me?

Matthew P: Im sorry but we do not have anything as far as an update is concerned for the K5. Pentax Japan has not acknowledged the problem as of now. I suggest reviewing News : PENTAX for all updates and any firmware updates that are needed for your products.

Jim Saueressig: does that mean they are aware of the problem but have simply not acknowledged it?

Matthew P: We can see that some people have had the issue on Pentaxforums.com but Pentax Japan is still researching the K5 for any problems and will post them @ pentax.jp as well as a firmware update FOR the issue if we show results of the mirror flap within testing.

Jim Saueressig: ok, secondly when will the O-GPS1 be available again in the USA?

Jim Saueressig: via the Pentax store or other retailers

Matthew P: The website says Mid July but we should see these around Mid August
08-05-2011, 06:30 AM   #188
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very interesting that chat with the Pentax chat support.

The part about a firmware "update for the issue" it might be nothing, it might be something if they have a small idea what can cause it. I already thought it was something part software, considering the nature how those flops are triggered.

08-06-2011, 08:54 AM   #189
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Not Firmware IMO

QuoteOriginally posted by vw_michael Quote
I think you're onto something here - one of the previous posts had an image of the gearing for the mirror box lift assembly. One of the gears has a sliding switch (encoder) which tells the camera what position (phase) the mirror is at.

I wonder if that's the culprit (due to contamination and perhaps heat), and the camera is trying to "prime" the mirror/shutter until it gets a reliable reading after a few spins.
Hoya may have pushed the FPS pass the design spec of those parts and did not do enough QC. Whats the difference between the K-7 and K-5: The K-5 is faster.

EDIT: to the above post I made some pages ago. New info is on the other Pentax Forum of the repair done by CRIS Cameras to solve one persons mirror flop issue..

Some, no "one" of the K5s coming back from repair say this on C.R.I.S Cameras repair receipt (posted at the other Pentax SLR forum ( For Jim Radcliffe - re mirror flop issue).

"sofladave,
Thanks for the update.
When I get mine back from C.R.I.S. I'll also report back. My guess is that I'll hear the same thing.
Time will tell.
Pete
sofladave wrote:
SanMat
I was told the same thing when I sent my K5 back. On the paperwork that came back with my camera the Repair Description said:
Replaced Aperture Control Unit
Replaced Aperture Control Contact Pad and Brushes
It will be interesting to see if your paperwork says the same
SuseB
I live in South Florida so it doesn't seem to be strictly a cold weather issue"

Guess where those parts are? Yep you might be close to understanding the K-5 mirror problem. The K-5 is faster as I said, did Pentax test to see if any grease applied would be thrown off and go all over and perhaps contaminate other parts? The K-7 did not have this problem, are the parts being driven a bit hard? Are there many causes for the mirror flop problem? I would not think so.

I can see it taking time for the throwing around of the grease to become a problem, or part failure taking time. The K5 is simply much faster than the K20D and faster than the K-7. Higher speed equals higher throwing force. The K20D was 3fps, K7 5fps, K5 7fps.

The repair "Replaced Aperture Control Contact Pad and Brushes" seems to be a wear problem or contamination problem, maybe. Or just bad parts. Who knows?

This is only a hypothesis now. Just thinking - if repaired does the problem come back again? The firmware answer would be to slow the K5 down to 5 fps kidding (I don't own it, but might be true). But I would not believe its firmware related. I would not believe everything Pentax says. The guys who repaired the unit may know more.

Last edited by jamesm007; 08-06-2011 at 09:05 AM.
08-06-2011, 10:41 AM   #190
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I have never shot anything at those fast speeds, but realize many do, and with good reason. Since I can get a Squirrel to freeze on command, I seldom need that kind of speed.

Just wondering......is this problem mainly showing up in the K5's of those fast frame shooters, or does it also show up in single frame shooters like me?
Regards!
08-06-2011, 11:44 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Hoya may have pushed the FPS pass the design spec of those parts and did not do enough QC. Whats the difference between the K-7 and K-5: The K-5 is faster.

SanMat
I was told the same thing when I sent my K5 back. On the paperwork that came back with my camera the Repair Description said:
Replaced Aperture Control Unit
Replaced Aperture Control Contact Pad and Brushes
It will be interesting to see if your paperwork says the same
SuseB
I live in South Florida so it doesn't seem to be strictly a cold weather issue"

James, thanks very much for posting this!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I have never shot anything at those fast speeds, but realize many do, and with good reason. Since I can get a Squirrel to freeze on command, I seldom need that kind of speed.

Just wondering......is this problem mainly showing up in the K5's of those fast frame shooters, or does it also show up in single frame shooters like me?
Regards!
Rupert - i agree, i've yet to take any burst shots with the K5, mostly because i don't want to go through all the takes. I understand others may have the need for it, i just don't.

We need to remember, perhaps, that this shutter mechanism is built by a third party, who doubtless builds shutters/mirror mechanisms for other companies as well. Therefore, i would think they know what they are doing. So who does the lubrication during shutter/mirror assembly - is it the Pentax factory or the shutter mfr factory?

As a retired engineer, i can't help but feel some sympathy for Pentax. We keep pushing them for more and faster performance - than we criticize the hell out of them when some new problem occurs because of the new specs. In today's fast paced world, the consumer is the test lab. You don't see statements like: Pentax is the most reliable camera out there - on the cover of Pop Photography - NO - the cover is more likely to say "Nikon at 25fps - the New Speed Demon"

Anyway, i'm going to continue to keep my K5 on dead slow anyway, until they get this sorted.

Somebody who cares should set up a poll Re how frequent camera users use burst shooting relative to experiencing mirror flops. I'd participate.
08-06-2011, 03:13 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
[/INDENT]James, thanks very much for posting this!!



Rupert - i agree, i've yet to take any burst shots with the K5, mostly because i don't want to go through all the takes. I understand others may have the need for it, i just don't.

We need to remember, perhaps, that this shutter mechanism is built by a third party, who doubtless builds shutters/mirror mechanisms for other companies as well. Therefore, i would think they know what they are doing. So who does the lubrication during shutter/mirror assembly - is it the Pentax factory or the shutter mfr factory?

As a retired engineer, i can't help but feel some sympathy for Pentax. We keep pushing them for more and faster performance - than we criticize the hell out of them when some new problem occurs because of the new specs. In today's fast paced world, the consumer is the test lab. You don't see statements like: Pentax is the most reliable camera out there - on the cover of Pop Photography - NO - the cover is more likely to say "Nikon at 25fps - the New Speed Demon"

Anyway, i'm going to continue to keep my K5 on dead slow anyway, until they get this sorted.

Somebody who cares should set up a poll Re how frequent camera users use burst shooting relative to experiencing mirror flops. I'd participate.


I agree that we are always pushing for more, faster, and better, and dependability has suffered as a result. Look at all the things in a camera today that were not even dreamed of just a few short years ago. The more in there and the higher the specs, the more likely the opportunity for a problem....or two...or more.
If they made the K5 rock solid dependable....just to suit my taste...no Live View, no Video, a couple of FPS, and more like an older film camera in options.........not many would buy it and it would be ridiculed as going backwards.

I'm not sure there is a ever a solution that is foolproof.......autos have come a long way in dependability. You can drive from New York to LA without a problem or even a worry of having a problem in most new vehicles. Yet, if you go to the repair center of the dealer, you will usually find it full of new vehicles........they are not in there for beauty rest!

Best Regards!
08-06-2011, 04:55 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote

Somebody who cares should set up a poll Re how frequent camera users use burst shooting relative to experiencing mirror flops. I'd participate.
I wouldn't have 25 shots on mine in rapid burst.
08-06-2011, 05:13 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Replaced Aperture Control Unit
Replaced Aperture Control Contact Pad and Brushes
Isn't this Aperture Control Unit newly designed for the K-5? It will make some noise and the aperture lever will move a little at startup, maybe a kind of calibration - I don't think the K-7 is doing this.
And yes, I also believe they had to do it for the much needed (as in: if they want to sell; I certainly don't need 7fps) speed.
08-06-2011, 05:52 PM   #195
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FYI - I have not noticed such behaviour on the K7 (latest firmware installed).

EDIT: I need my hearing checked - the K7 moves the aperture lever on startup after all ...

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Isn't this Aperture Control Unit newly designed for the K-5? It will make some noise and the aperture lever will move a little at startup, maybe a kind of calibration - I don't think the K-7 is doing this.
And yes, I also believe they had to do it for the much needed (as in: if they want to sell; I certainly don't need 7fps) speed.

Last edited by photocanadian; 08-15-2011 at 04:01 AM.
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