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07-18-2011, 04:57 AM   #61
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Why not send the camera in for warranty service and just see what part they replace?

07-18-2011, 05:51 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Why not send the camera in for warranty service and just see what part they replace?
because they might dont know what the problem is yet.
07-18-2011, 06:11 AM   #63
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I've been flopped ... happened a lot this week-end; never with a good repetition pattern.

(I only have one battery, so I can't test the smoking gun).
07-18-2011, 06:35 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rin Quote
because they might dont know what the problem is yet.
If repair has never heard of the issue, they soon will as my K5 is going in the mail today.

07-18-2011, 08:37 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
If repair has never heard of the issue, they soon will as my K5 is going in the mail today.
I would put a note in the box with a link to this thread
07-18-2011, 08:51 AM   #66
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Question

I've only done a quick re-read of this thread but the problem seems to reported mainly by folks using Pentax batteries. Since Lithium batteries have some safety circuitry installed isn't it just as likely to be a problem with a batch of bad batteries rather than a camera problem. I own both a Pentax battery and a 3rd party brand, let them drain, top them off, etc etc with the OEM charger and after now 13000 shutter activations in high temperature areas, have yet to experience the problem. So are people also having problems with 3rd party batteries? I can't be the only one using them.

FYI my Pentax battery has a manufacture date of 201011

I'm no expert so apologies if I'm being too simplistic.
07-18-2011, 09:50 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by geezer52 Quote
I'm no expert so apologies if I'm being too simplistic.
The issue is that the problem is just starting to happen to a "lot" of people in a short time duration.
07-18-2011, 10:18 AM   #68
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Someone with the problem might try some testing related to live view as well. The first time it ever happened was when I was doing some messing around inside the house (cool temps) with live view. I don't remember the specifics but the mirror was flopping after switching out. I will mess with mine and see if I can remember what the specifics were that caused it.

I want to wait for repairs until they know what is actually wrong.

07-18-2011, 10:42 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
The OP's experiment makes interesting reading but while it seems to point at a battery/voltage problem with his camera in my case the course for the mirror flutter appears to be a different one.

I purchased my K5 late in Feb. this year. I run 2 original PENTAX batteries together with an original PENTAX grip.

The Cam worked faultlessly up until I traveled to Cambodia some 6 weeks ago. The temperature in Cambodia this time of the year is around the 38-40C and 100% humidity. The mirror flutter and malfunctioning buttons of my K5 was constant.
..............
In Chicago the temp was around the 25-28C and the camera was in use 4 days with fully charged batteries without any hickups.
..............
In New York though the temp last week was some 35-38C and the K5 was malfunctioning with frequent mirror flutter triggered by various button presses.
..........
Today I am in San Francisco 15th July, the temp is around the 14C mark and my K5 is working faultlessly!

So to me at least it indicates that the problems are temperature related. I have been in the unique position to have traveled through some extreme climate/temperature locations within a short time and pretty consistently the K5 works when it is cool but mucks up when it is hot.

Greetings
QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Before my cam started to misbehave it had little use and I had not used the machine gun setting up to this point. So if your theory holds true than I hate to think what will happen after 2 or three years of use. I think it simply is an electronic component malfunctioning which would explain why the mirror flutter and other problems can be triggered by a number of unrelated button presses.
Greetings
Schraubstock: I give up on my friction idea , the consistency of your experience and others, really seems to point to an electrical problem.

QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
I think your the type who will really enjoy looking at the service manuals...There is plastic gears that move the mirror and aperture lever arm. ..There is also many places that need grease...
James, thanks for posting these gear images!! It shows that a good deal of design is involved in the mechanical linkage and actuation. When something like this goes wrong, it tends to go wrong all the time - so i'm thinking electrical instead of my friction theory (now).

QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
Unfortuantly the situation with mirror flopping on my K5 has esclated rapidly. I first noticed it just a flop or two a month ago. A couple of weeks ago it was really irritating after the battery change as it flopped so much as to interfere with a photo shoot i was doing. Yesterday I had to recharge the battery, and when reinstalled. it pretty much flopped most of the time when ever you turned it on and the camera was unusable. I let it sit overnight figuring that the edge would drift off the battery by sitting around, and it did.--- just occasional flops and you could take photos with it between the occasional flops
Yours is the kind of camera that needs to be submitted for repairs - i'll explain later.

QuoteOriginally posted by geezer52 Quote
I've only done a quick re-read of this thread but the problem seems to reported mainly by folks using Pentax batteries. Since Lithium batteries have some safety circuitry installed isn't it just as likely to be a problem with a batch of bad batteries rather than a camera problem. ...
There's this cliche about fixing machinery: Mechanical problems are easy to find but hard to fix, electrical problems are hard to find, but easy to fix.

The intermittent heat/temperature related flopping problems are going to be harder for the Pentax authorized repair shops to find and fix. The best problem cameras to send in are like the one that rvanatta discussed, where anytime he has a charged battery, its flopping the mirror until the battery wears down. By all means, folks should provide written descriptions along with the cameras they send in for repairs. Don't rely on repair shops to find out this stuff on their own, or you will more often than not, be disappointed with the results, i.e. non-repair.

Reading these replies is some good news, i no longer think this is a wear problem but a problem with some electrical part on some circuit board. And i doubt that everyone will be affected. We just need to get some cameras in for repair that are doing it all the time or whenever the battery is charged. The temp. related cameras have the same problem as the other flopping mirror cameras, but aren't going to be the best first cameras to send in on this issue. IMHO

I don't think this problem has anything to do with batteries or chargers, other than the fact that a fully charged battery seems to be required for the problem to occur. I'm going on at 5 months with my K5, no flopping mirror and feel much more relieved after reading these various posts.
07-18-2011, 11:40 AM   #70
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I think that they will be able to find problem. Turn on the camera. push the shutter button 3 times with a near fully charged battery and it takes off like a machine gun.--- regarless
of what lens is on it---or with no lens at all. It isn't recording pictures nor does any of
the viewfinder information show while this is going on. It will eventually stop flopping,
but pushing almost any button on the camera will restart the flopping.

The memory card doesn't seem to make much difference---you can take it out, and it will still flop.
Ambient temperature certainly is NOT an issue with me. I'm in the only part of the country
that is cold.----we haven't seen any ambient tempertatures above 70 degrees recently. Yesterday it was cloudy and raining, and I had to build a fire in my fireplace just to keep from freezing in my house.
07-18-2011, 01:41 PM   #71
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Interesting. My K5 flops too, and can confirm when the battery is fully charged. I though it may need some firmware update and was looking for firmware before this thread got my attention. What annoying issue. The K5 is a good camera, except the mirror flops and frozen electronics some time. I am now asking if I can rely on the K5 and if it is worth the money at all.
07-18-2011, 02:12 PM   #72
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I have the same problem and I made the test:
K-5, I cooled to about 10 degrees C without the battery. I inserted the battery into the device (voltage 8:36 V). Work without problems. Replace the battery (voltage 7.8) also works without problems.
When the K-5 is warm to room temperature (about 25 degrees C), the problems arise with a fully charged battery (voltage 8.36 V)
07-18-2011, 05:39 PM   #73
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Top Control Board seems to be the problem...

See this post on another thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/152333-how-common-k5-shu...ml#post1583575

by sjWaldron
07-19-2011, 01:53 AM   #74
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My K5 used to flop only in hot temperature outdoor, but now even sitting in an air-conditioned room it flops whenever it wants to. The problem gets worsen over time. My K5 occasionally had double mirror slaps in the first few months, which I wasn't aware of until one day the mirror starts to flip. My K5 is nearly 7 months old now.

Battery voltage is not the cause for me. I tried the original/3rd party battery or DBG-4 + AA, fully charged or half-used all have the same result.
07-19-2011, 09:27 PM   #75
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Gents,
so far it looks like battery related issue, not DSLR-related one.
Since I've got a single batt only (the original stock one that came with camera) and I haven't met this flopping issue (2x knock) I don't have an ability to carry out the obvious test:
- take all the batts out to the bench
- connect DMM (or any voltmeter) to a batt terminal and read the voltage
- having the voltmeter still connected to batt terminals run some DC motor from this battery and carefully read the voltage changes when the motor starts and when you cut it off
- recall the usage history for every battery benched (shelf time, storage temperature, charge cycles performed and so forth)
N.b.: DMM/voltmeter should be replaced with oscilloscope for more precise measurements in terms of voltage and time domains. But even with analogue voltmeter such a test must be very representative.

My bet is the there's a definite voltage spike - either up or down - when either you connect the motor or disconnect it. And it's the battery that goes... well... one can say 'old' while technically it's better to call 'changed'. It's not the camera (nor its electronics under its hood - like voltage stabilizers and so on; to resist to significant voltage drop you may need to put a capacitor of that size, that will transform your handy K-5 into some monstrous Deardorff), it's the battery+charger.

I got my K-5 (and its original stock batt) in March and have gone thru about 10 charge cycles and haven't met this flipping issue. This batt is stored in the camera mostly at room temperature of 20-30C (70-85F). Batt #ID is 201012, but it's not the serial number - it's the production code (Dec '10).

Zig
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