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07-19-2011, 10:05 PM   #76
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I charged two batteries overnight on two chargers, Pentax and Premium Tech (from Adorama, through Amazon). The battery off the Pentax Charger read 8.41V the battery from the Premium Tech Charger read 8.52V (won't be using that any more). Neither caused flopping when put in the camera, but my camera has never flopped at home.

I went out last weekend on a backpacking trip, expecting the camera to flop like it did the last two trips. First shot with the first battery, flop. Tried another battery, flopped again. I took out the battery, left it out, only putting it in briefly for shots, and it worked without flopping. After about 50 shots or so, I just left it in and it worked fine. Went through the next couple of days and 3 more batteries without flopping. I made sure to put in freshly charged batteries in the morning or at night (overnight temperatures were below freezing).

I don't know if leaving the battery out freezing it helped with the flopping, but I'm glad it worked for the weekend.

07-19-2011, 11:24 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by walter Quote
I charged two batteries overnight on two chargers, Pentax and Premium Tech (from Adorama, through Amazon). The battery off the Pentax Charger read 8.41V the battery from the Premium Tech Charger read 8.52V (won't be using that any more). Neither caused flopping when put in the camera, but my camera has never flopped at home.

I went out last weekend on a backpacking trip, expecting the camera to flop like it did the last two trips. First shot with the first battery, flop. Tried another battery, flopped again. I took out the battery, left it out, only putting it in briefly for shots, and it worked without flopping. After about 50 shots or so, I just left it in and it worked fine. Went through the next couple of days and 3 more batteries without flopping. I made sure to put in freshly charged batteries in the morning or at night (overnight temperatures were below freezing).

I don't know if leaving the battery out freezing it helped with the flopping, but I'm glad it worked for the weekend.
Did you happen to take a voltage reading once flopping stopped?
07-20-2011, 12:26 AM   #78
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Gents, this is an intruging problem.

I have a K-7 and a K-5 and 3 batteries between them, neither camera has shown any of the symptoms or misactuations described in this thread (colour me lucky)

It occurs to me that the K-7 and K-5 are essentially the same camera with a different sensor and a few cosmetic changes, which begs the question, have there been any reports of this aberrant behavior with the k-7? I don't recall any. If the electronics in the camera are the same (assumption on my part) then surely this problem would have occurred with the K-7's as well.

Could it be that there is a faulty battery batch causing these problems?

I have two 'unlabelled' batteries. One that came with the k-7, one I bought along with the grip from a camera shop in Bangkok, and one with a 201011 manufacture date. I repeat, I have had no problems with any combination of these.
07-20-2011, 12:27 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by walter Quote
I charged two batteries overnight on two chargers, Pentax and Premium Tech (from Adorama, through Amazon). The battery off the Pentax Charger read 8.41V the battery from the Premium Tech Charger read 8.52V...
The Pentax branded battery included with my K-5 says it's rated at 7.2v. Since the K-7 and K-5 use the same battery, I never unpacked the K-5 charger and continued the use of my K-7's charger, exclusively, on the batteries for my K-5. A full charge from my K-7's charger produces a reading of 7.8v.

No K-5 mirror flops...


Last edited by Michaelina2; 07-20-2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason: clarification
07-20-2011, 12:30 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
The Pentax branded battery included with my K-5 says it's rated at 7.2v. Since the K-7 and K-5 use the same battery, I never unpacked the K-5 charger and continued the use of my K-7's charger, exclusively. A full charge from my K-7's charger produces a reading of 7.8v.

No mirror flops...
Very good point, I too have never used the newer charger that came with the K-5 as I already had the K-7 charger in place on my desk.
07-20-2011, 01:10 AM   #81
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No mirror flops in my K-7, three years old, 30k shots or something, two original batteries, original charger. Always shot batteries to empty then always charge them full. Shot in +30C down to -18C, no problems.

Imho, dont think the K-7 has this problem at all.
07-20-2011, 01:47 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote

It occurs to me that the K-7 and K-5 are essentially the same camera with a different sensor and a few cosmetic changes, which begs the question, have there been any reports of this aberrant behavior with the k-7? I don't recall any.
someone mentioned in other thread he had mirror flipping with K20D, K7 and K5
I am still waiting for this behaviour to show up on my K5...
07-20-2011, 08:00 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by HawaiianOnline Quote
Did you happen to take a voltage reading once flopping stopped?
no, I was out bacpacking at the time and didn't have a voltmeter with me.

07-20-2011, 08:12 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by dave216 Quote
dirty contacts on gear (9) seen at pictures 3 and 4 above cause mirror flop issue on k10d, so i think there must be similar mechanism in k5
Maybe dave is onto something. I dont see it being *directly* related to the batteries or voltages; follow me...

Perhaps the issue develops like this: Heat causes the grease to liquify to a degree, or at least alter its viscosity. It then starts to flow a little and ends up smudging across the brush contacts etc as seen on Gear (9).

Maybe the grease they use they've changed due to RoHS etc.. and the new one changes its dielectric (??) properties when its changes it viscosity. Or maybe continued heat cycling causes it.. maybe the smaller body of the K-5 combined with the metal enclosure means they run hotter

New/Over voltage batteries initially cause the problem to exacerbate in one of two ways maybe - because they don't cause more voltage but will cause more heat dissipation in the regulators which heats the grease again mildly, again changing its viscosity. Or alternatively there is an issue with the regulation and the extra voltage is enough to arc (I doubt this...but possible - but i reckon its more just extra heat dumped via the regs which the circuit on my k20d has and can't imagine thats changed...)

The problem finally develops into an ongoing issue once the grease sufficiently covers the contacts. This is also why some people can 'short cut' to the 'goes nuts all the time' stage.. all depends where/how the grease ends up.

This could also be why some people are lucky enough to not have problems - Or maybe there was a period of time when the assembly line over greased some components - causing the sporadic appearance now.

of course.. I'm just guessing.... but also fits with why they changed that component when one got "repaired" in another thread (also referenced here somewhere...)

Last edited by adr1an; 07-20-2011 at 08:19 AM.
07-20-2011, 08:34 AM   #85
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Grease?

QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
Or maybe there was a period of time when the assembly line over greased some components - causing the sporadic appearance now.
Obviously I don't know the cause of the problems that people are seeing, but I have kinda suspected the above for the other two major mechanical issues that I have seen people post about.

1. The e-dial issue on the K-R. People have said that they have fixed it by spraying contact cleaner through the gaps. It cleans off the excess grease that prevents contact.

2. The sensor stain issue on the K-5. Some people have remarked that it appears all of the sudden. Other people have remarked that it gets worse over time. The "string of pearls" looks like a splatter pattern to me. Maybe excess grease from the mirror mechanism eventually sprays on the sensor?

As far as the voltage and the battery issues for the mirror flopping goes, I am going to see what kind of voltage readings I get from 6 fully charged 1.2 volt AA's. If it is around 7.2 volts total I am going to switch over to AA's at least until the mirror flopping problem is definitively diagnosed.
07-20-2011, 04:11 PM   #86
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Hi
All this grease speculation does not explain why the mirror flapping can be induced by pressing any of the control buttons/wheels on the cam. All these buttons and wheels are electrically/electronically linked to a circuitry board which then trigger the appropriate responses to the wheels and levers to operate whatever was intended to operate. So I guess there is an electronic component malfunctioning and it is sending the wrong signal simultaneously, spontaneously or separately to the wrong places or in this case to the mirror triggering motor.

Just my understanding of it.

Greetings
07-20-2011, 06:06 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
2. The sensor stain issue on the K-5. ... Maybe excess grease from the mirror mechanism eventually sprays on the sensor?
The sensor stain issue is a completely separate one. It was caused by some residual adhesive between the filter and the sensor. It has nothing to do with excess grease and should be a thing of the past.
07-20-2011, 06:29 PM   #88
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Why all the conjecture - its already been diagnosed...

One of our PF members, sjWaldron:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/152333-how-common-k5-shu...ml#post1583575

has already sent his camera in and its been diagnosed as an "top control board" by an authorized repair center. Once he gets it back, then we'll know for sure if the technician knew his stuff. Now people can call in to their repair shop and ask them if they have top control boards on hand to avoid the camera waiting in the shop, i think.
07-20-2011, 06:43 PM   #89
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You are probably right...

QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Hi
All this grease speculation does not explain why the mirror flapping can be induced by pressing any of the control buttons/wheels on the cam. All these buttons and wheels are electrically/electronically linked to a circuitry board which then trigger the appropriate responses to the wheels and levers to operate whatever was intended to operate. So I guess there is an electronic component malfunctioning and it is sending the wrong signal simultaneously, spontaneously or separately to the wrong places or in this case to the mirror triggering motor.

Just my understanding of it.

Greetings
...it is like shooting at a moving target. The grease thing sounds unlikely but someone else said that it was an issue on an earlier model. Over-greasing does seem like the likely culprit with the K-R e-dial issue though.

I read somewhere else that Pentax service in the Phillipines(?) found that a resistor in the battery charger was faulty. I actually don't understand why people are getting readings of 8.4+ volts off a fully charged battery when I thought that a fully charged battery was supposed to be 7.2 volts.

I am interested in the mystery and plan to start disassembling my camera blind-folded starting at 2 am this morning. Then I will be traveling around the world for the next month before I start re-assembly.
07-20-2011, 06:47 PM   #90
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Yes...

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The sensor stain issue is a completely separate one. It was caused by some residual adhesive between the filter and the sensor. It has nothing to do with excess grease and should be a thing of the past.
...I would imagine so. Curious that some people have said it appeared suddenly and/or gets worse over time. Maybe just oversight, or maybe that could happen even with the adhesive issue.
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