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07-28-2011, 11:49 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
JIm, have you sent yours in?
I will not send it in until after my trip to California.

07-28-2011, 12:29 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by kmarceau Quote
Does anybody have a direct number for the CRIS repair team?
C.R.I.S.
250 North 54th Street
Chandler, AZ 85226
Phone: (480) 940-1103
Fax: (480) 940-1329
http://www.criscam.com/
07-28-2011, 12:39 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Radcliffe Quote
I will not send it in until after my trip to California.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for your trip Jim
07-28-2011, 03:00 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Radcliffe Quote
I will not send it in until after my trip to California.
Well that makes sense, have a great trip!!!

07-29-2011, 11:33 AM   #125
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I have worked on a *ist DL which had one of the cams in this very mechanism broken off due to the (previous) user messing with the mirror and shutter, trying to clean the sensor. The broken cam prevented the shutter from operating since the mirror motor and mechanism "winds-up" the shutter before it can be released.

Or, in short, the visible gear assembly is an indirect part of the shutter mechanism. We should all worry

I'm not sure if the premium cams like the K5 or K7 have the same plastic gearing, but I would suspect so ... scary thought.

EDIT: Found a pic I took while working on that camera (which actually works to this day). The part labelled as "641" is the mirror/shutter motor. The encoder switch in question is right under it. Note the lovely plastic gears, all requiring specialized plastic lubricants in the exacts spots.

QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
I think your the type who will really enjoy looking at the service manuals. There are many but only go up to the K20D; but it shows everything inside and gives a good idea how they are made. There is plastic gears that move the mirror and aperture lever arm. Remember something has to move the arm behind your lens to the right spot when taking a pic and that part has wear and tear as well. There is also many places that need grease. It is applied in the area right to the left of the mirror box where the aperture arm control is.

Downloads

The side of a K10/20, type camera. All the spots in yellow have to have grease applied before and some after assembly.



The parts put on, note all plastic gears. I don't worry about the shutter as much as failure else ware. My K10D died at 38,000 clicks and it was not the shutter, it was one of the other moving parts!
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Last edited by photocanadian; 07-29-2011 at 11:53 AM.
07-29-2011, 11:39 AM   #126
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Just thinking ...

I think you're onto something here - one of the previous posts had an image of the gearing for the mirror box lift assembly. One of the gears has a sliding switch (encoder) which tells the camera what position (phase) the mirror is at.

I wonder if that's the culprit (due to contamination and perhaps heat), and the camera is trying to "prime" the mirror/shutter until it gets a reliable reading after a few spins.

QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
I think that they will be able to find problem. Turn on the camera. push the shutter button 3 times with a near fully charged battery and it takes off like a machine gun.--- regarless
of what lens is on it---or with no lens at all. It isn't recording pictures nor does any of
the viewfinder information show while this is going on. It will eventually stop flopping,
but pushing almost any button on the camera will restart the flopping.

The memory card doesn't seem to make much difference---you can take it out, and it will still flop.
Ambient temperature certainly is NOT an issue with me. I'm in the only part of the country
that is cold.----we haven't seen any ambient tempertatures above 70 degrees recently. Yesterday it was cloudy and raining, and I had to build a fire in my fireplace just to keep from freezing in my house.
07-31-2011, 11:01 AM   #127
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My K5 flops too.

I have followed this thread closely. My Pentax K5 stopped working this Saturday. It started flopping the mirror up and down for no reason and would not take photos. I was outside in the upper 80s for about 3 hours when this problem started, but I was not in direct sun. I shot about 80 photos before this started and another battery did not cure the problem. Today it is still doing the same thing even though it is inside and cool, thus the problem must not be heat related. Turning it on and off sometimes fixes the problem for a few shots, usually not. Replacing the battery with another fully charged one does nothing. Both batteries are Pentax and only about 3 months old. The camera has only been used for about a 1000 shots. Guess it is off to be repaired after I hear from B&H. I traded a Canon 5DII for this one because of its size, but I cannot afford to have it fail. I hope Pentax can solve this problem.
07-31-2011, 07:07 PM   #128
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Sent mine in as well for the mirror issue. My problem is very much like the OP in that it occurs with a fully charged battery. Once the battery is drained slightly or replaced with a half charged battery the mirror/camera works fine. Mine also had an issue where video would not record audio as well. I'm hoping its a related electrical issue and eon't require alot of work or at least replace the camera all together as it has multiple issues.

07-31-2011, 10:55 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
Sent mine in as well for the mirror issue. My problem is very much like the OP in that it occurs with a fully charged battery. Once the battery is drained slightly or replaced with a half charged battery the mirror/camera works fine. Mine also had an issue where video would not record audio as well. I'm hoping its a related electrical issue and eon't require alot of work or at least replace the camera all together as it has multiple issues.
I'm eager to hear what they make of it... keep us posted!

I will say this, after using the K-5 for a week now, if mine started acting up, I'd buy another K-5 and send mine off, it's that good. The only reason I don't just buy another k-5 is I'm saving the money to see what the next incarnation of this camera is in a few years. I have not enjoyed photography as much since the days of film... seriously.
08-01-2011, 04:50 AM   #130
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Neat picture. One day I am going to have fun and get to do that to my K20D

There is some flexible and one or two solid PCB boards in dSLRs. However in and around the mirror-box is an incredible amount of moving parts. Moreover they need great precession in manufacture and lose that precession during use, so they need tune-ups. To be honest this design was for film. When you could not shoot 1000 pics a day or put about 20,000 pics a year on a dSLR as I do.. Something has to be better for digital. Not saying mirror less, something even more advanced.

And yes I would bet the K-5 or K-7 use plastic gears even though they are premium. The K10D and K20D were the top premium models a few years ago Now with the push to smaller and lighter...

EDIT I had to see how Nikon makes em, to my surprise the D300 is by just looking at it superior in materials. It uses metal gears. I am a 100% Pentax fanboy, believe me I am. But this is not good IMO... I have to post a link as the author is retaining rights to the pics but have a look... Believe me I know car engines use plastic in gears but in a failure that stresses the gear they are usually the first thing to break. Like timing chain upper gears that are metal and have plastic teeth...

Nikon D300 Mirror Box | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Not only does Nikon use metal in the D300 its brass or copper and stainless steel for corrosion resistance... If the D7000 is made like this its enough to make me...

Last edited by jamesm007; 08-01-2011 at 05:15 AM.
08-01-2011, 05:21 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by vw_michael Quote
I think you're onto something here - one of the previous posts had an image of the gearing for the mirror box lift assembly. One of the gears has a sliding switch (encoder) which tells the camera what position (phase) the mirror is at.

I wonder if that's the culprit (due to contamination and perhaps heat), and the camera is trying to "prime" the mirror/shutter until it gets a reliable reading after a few spins.
Hoya may have pushed the FPS pass the design spec of those parts and did not do enough QC. Whats the difference between the K-7 and K-5: The K-5 is faster.



Last edited by jamesm007; 08-06-2011 at 08:52 AM.
08-01-2011, 05:42 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Not only does Nikon use metal in the D300
"The biggest issue happened to be the mirror box which broke down and had to be replaced as well"
08-01-2011, 09:57 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Neat picture. One day I am going to have fun and get to do that to my K20D

There is some flexible and one or two solid PCB boards in dSLRs. However in and around the mirror-box is an incredible amount of moving parts. Moreover they need great precession in manufacture and lose that precession during use, so they need tune-ups. To be honest this design was for film. When you could not shoot 1000 pics a day or put about 20,000 pics a year on a dSLR as I do.. Something has to be better for digital. Not saying mirror less, something even more advanced.

And yes I would bet the K-5 or K-7 use plastic gears even though they are premium. The K10D and K20D were the top premium models a few years ago Now with the push to smaller and lighter...

EDIT I had to see how Nikon makes em, to my surprise the D300 is by just looking at it superior in materials. It uses metal gears. I am a 100% Pentax fanboy, believe me I am. But this is not good IMO... I have to post a link as the author is retaining rights to the pics but have a look... Believe me I know car engines use plastic in gears but in a failure that stresses the gear they are usually the first thing to break. Like timing chain upper gears that are metal and have plastic teeth...

Nikon D300 Mirror Box | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Not only does Nikon use metal in the D300 its brass or copper and stainless steel for corrosion resistance... If the D7000 is made like this its enough to make me...
But you are guessing about the k-5 gears...

Pentax says 100,000 actuations MTBF for the K-5. The D300 Nikon is rated 150,000.

100,000 is 50 photos a day, everyday, for over 5 years. Assuming you do 50 photos a day, everyday, the not yet released K-5 successor with the new Sony 24mp aps-c chip will be OLD by the time your K-5 dies a natural death.

My guess is that you don't get to 100,000 MTBF with plastic gears.
08-01-2011, 10:39 AM   #134
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K5 off to Pentax

After contacting B&H and finding out they could not help me with my K5 because it has been too long since I bought it, I called Pentax. Although they did not admit to the problem being common, they suggested that I send it to them with a full description of what happened, when, temperature, etc. Tomorrow it will be at UPS. I once owned an ist DS (sold to buy a Canon 5DII) that never failed and the new owner still uses it. I traded the 5DII for the Pentax because of the size and weight. Sure do like the Pentax, but my faith in it is shaky right now. Hope they provide fast service and quality work to restore my faith.
08-01-2011, 03:40 PM   #135
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But you are guessing about the k-5 gears...

Pentax says 100,000 actuations MTBF for the K-5. The D300 Nikon is rated 150,000.

100,000 is 50 photos a day, everyday, for over 5 years. Assuming you do 50 photos a day, everyday, the not yet released K-5 successor with the new Sony 24mp aps-c chip will be OLD by the time your K-5 dies a natural death.

My guess is that you don't get to 100,000 MTBF with plastic gears.

If the K10D that has a shutter rated for 100,000 actuations and a K20D that says "more than" 100,000 actuations. And given they were top dogs why would you think the K-5 does not use plastic gears? Those gears have nothing to do with the shutter, the shutter is bought from another company called Copal. Copal made the D-5 shutter (look in Falk Lumos blog) and all other Pentax shutters. The plastic gears mainly move the mirror and aperture lever. Why would Pentax change this with the K-5?
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