K5 Mirror Flops - Smoking Gun Found

sebberry · 12-30-2011, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by pentup

Interesting that they're using an alleged bit of cosmetic damage to the camera's casing to invalidate your entitlement to a replacement camera.

No kidding. Are they not expecting that people will actually use the cameras?

Perhaps they should look at their own shoddy build before blaming the end-user.

So much for things getting better under Ricoh.

SpecialK · 12-30-2011, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by nanadoo

Can some one please tell me what I should do now?

Buy a different brand. You will never be confident with Pentax.

nanadoo · 12-31-2011, 07:00 PM

Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and sympathy! I will bug the crap out of them until they know me by my first breath! I love the k-5 and am just sick about the whole mess. This camera will always be my weapon of choice.................sigh. Happy New Year and happy shooting in 2012.

sebberry · 12-31-2011, 07:04 PM

I think.. I'm hoping.. that my mirror flops that I experienced were just me accidentally hitting the RAW button which I had set up to enable bracketed exposures...

bjake · 01-01-2012, 09:51 AM

Have been having the mirror flop problem with my KX,seems to happen with just one lens.With any other lens it works properly.
Jake

nanadoo · 01-03-2012, 12:05 PM

wow..........I bet I could capture a great pic for WORLD PENTAX DAY IF I HAD MY PENTAX K-5! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

nanadoo · 01-03-2012, 01:12 PM

UPDATE on K-5. Made the second call to the repair center. Good old Randy is sending my request up the chain.
Soon Randy will say, "Guys, Rita is on line 1.......someone please send that woman a new K-5!

Think of me when you are out shooting for WORLD PENTAX DAY. Shoot pretty and pray I will join you in 2013

bjake · 01-04-2012, 12:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by bjake

Have been having the mirror flop problem with my KX,seems to happen with just one lens.With any other lens it works properly.
Jake

Have found and fixed the problem with the mirror flopping with the one lens.The aperture lever on the lens was bent a few degrees toward the middle,bent the lever back until it was as near to 90 degrees to the lens base,now it works properly with no lens flop.
Jake

Geach · 01-13-2012, 09:15 PM

Chalk up another lense flopping K5 here. Got it in mid November, SN starts with 409.
Charged the battery overnight, now every single f*cking button sets it off. Was asked to be a photographer at a community event today too. Bought it from B&H when I was living in the US recently. Now I'm going to discover what the warranty is like here in Australia. Not impressed at all.

Geach · 01-13-2012, 09:19 PM

Double post. Apologies.

cbope · 01-17-2012, 05:42 AM

I recall reading in one of the posts (can't find it now) that someone may have isolated mirror flops to a slightly bent aperture lever on their lens. Has anyone confirmed or eliminated this as a cause of mirror flops?

My K-5 continues to work fine, no sign of mirror flops. But I currently use only the 18-55 kit lens and rarely dismount it.

toooldtocare · 01-17-2012, 01:44 PM

When mine failed it was due to temperature. It was hot (90+ and sunny) and I had been outside for hours. After it cooled down it started working again. Do not think it had anything to do with the lens. CRIS repaired it and it has been fine since.

DaveXT · 01-17-2012, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Jim Radcliffe

Like many here I have recently begun to experience the "Runaway Mirror Flops" with my K5. At first I thought this was a heat related problem as it just recently began while I was using the K5 in 90 to 102 degree outside temperatures.

After reading a number of posts here and in other forums which suggested it might be a battery related issue I decided to run a test on my K5 and was able to "force" the mirror flops to occur. Here is what I did.

I have three genuine Pentax batteries. One of them was left half discharged and the other two were fully charged overnight in preperation for testing this morning.

The outisde temperature during this test was 85 degrees this morning at 7:30AM.

I began shooting with the battery that was half discharged. I shot over 25 frames using that battery without a single mirror flop. I had the DA* 50-135mm mounted as this was the same lens I had mounted when the issues began several weeks ago.

I then removed the battery and placed one of the fully charged batteries in the camera and shot 3 frames before the camera's mirror began to flop. It flopped when I did a half press of the shutter and it also flopped when I pressed the AF button on the back of the camera. I then removed the fully charged battery and put the half charged battery back in the camera and continued to shoot without a single mirror flop.

I then removed that battery and placed my second fully charged battery in the camera and began to shoot again.. four shots into this process the mirror flops began again. I took that battery out and replaced it with the half charged battery and began shooting again...20 frames and not a single mirror flop.

I then decided to switch the lens to see if that might have had some connection to the mirror flops. I mounted the 43 Ltd and continued to shoot with the half discharged battery... no mirror flops.

I then removed the half discharged battery and replaced it with one of the two fully charged batteries and almost immediately the mirror flops began with the 43 Ltd. mounted on the camera. I pulled that battery and put the half discharged battery back in the camera.. 10 frames and no mirror flops. I then put the second fully charged battery in the camera, shot two frames and the mirror flops began again.

To me this seems to suggest that the issue is related to either the voltage output of the fully charged batteries or a voltage regulating component in the K5 itself.

The serial numbers of the batteries which caused the flops are: 201101 and 201012. The half discharged battery serial number is: 201011.

The two extra batteries I purchased (201011 and 201012) both came from B&H. My gut tells me that if I fully charged the half discharged battery that it would also cause the camera to mirror flop. I will charge it fully tonight and see if that occurs.

The more confusing issue is that the mirror flops did not begin until 5 months after I purchased the K5. This leads me to believe that some component in the camera is beginning to fail in some way and makes itself known ONLY when a fully charged battery is being used. This is in line with others saying that the camera finally "settles down" and operates properly. It seems that once the battery discharges a bit after a full charge the issue goes away.

Note that the mirror flops have never occured until the last month of use and I have been using the camera a lot since I purchased it in March of 2011.

To me, the test I ran this morning with half discharged and fully charged batteries is a clear indication that there is an issue with voltage regulation within the camera itself and this is causing the mirror flops. At no time does the camera ever actually take a picture during the mirror flops.

I feel good that I was finally able to actually force the camera to malfunction in this manner and hope that Pentax will look into this problem.

I too have the mirror flop issue. I have found it is directly related to the state of charge of the battery and perhaps temperature related due to heat raising battery voltage.
I had no issues with the K-5 until it was 3 months old when I took it out of a hot car and placed a fresh charged battery in then it immediately went into mirror flop state.
I have 3 batteries for the camera and tested each , Batt#1 8.4 volt temp 25c mirror flop, Batt#2 8.28 volt temp 25c no issue, Batt #3 8.04 volt temp 25c no issue.
It seems batteries are over charging or the camera is unable to cope with the higher voltage.
Would be nice if Pentax came clean and admitted there was a fault and found a fix for this issue, we can only live in hope!

Jim Radcliffe · 01-17-2012, 04:27 PM

I can't believe that this issue is still going on. They repaired mine and the mirror-flops have not returned but for this to continue and no official statement from Pentax after all this time and all the documented cases just does not make any sense. I can tell you this, if the mirror flops return on my K5 after it was repaired in AZ then I will probably replace the camera.. by "replace" I mean selling all my Pentax gear and switching to another brand.

geezer52 · 01-18-2012, 12:59 AM

You know after re-reading about this problem and how it seemed to be related to the state of the battery, I got to thinking about the problem I had with my K5 locking up and getting a "Battery Depleted" message even tho I was using a freshly charged battery. One of the repair actions CRIS did on my K5 was perform the "Mirror Overrun Modification". ("Mirror Overrun" being the Pentax term for mirror flops). I never experienced the "Flops" issue so I was a little surprised they did that but assumed they were just being proactive about a potential but unrelated problem. Now I wonder if the "Mirror Overrun Modification" isn't a coverall term for a general fix of a known issue in the K5's electronics that is responsible for a number of different problems that K5 owners have been experiencing.

01-13-2012, 09:19 PM	#325
Geach New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6	Double post. Apologies. Last edited by Geach; 01-13-2012 at 09:28 PM.

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12-30-2011, 07:59 PM	#316
sebberry Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Frozen white North Photos: Albums Posts: 1,135	Originally posted by pentup Interesting that they're using an alleged bit of cosmetic damage to the camera's casing to invalidate your entitlement to a replacement camera. No kidding. Are they not expecting that people will actually use the cameras? Perhaps they should look at their own shoddy build before blaming the end-user. So much for things getting better under Ricoh.

12-30-2011, 10:50 PM	#317
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Originally posted by nanadoo Can some one please tell me what I should do now? Buy a different brand. You will never be confident with Pentax.

12-31-2011, 07:00 PM	#318
nanadoo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: marion va Photos: Gallery Posts: 28	Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and sympathy! I will bug the crap out of them until they know me by my first breath! I love the k-5 and am just sick about the whole mess. This camera will always be my weapon of choice.................sigh. Happy New Year and happy shooting in 2012.

12-31-2011, 07:04 PM	#319
sebberry Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Frozen white North Photos: Albums Posts: 1,135	I think.. I'm hoping.. that my mirror flops that I experienced were just me accidentally hitting the RAW button which I had set up to enable bracketed exposures...

01-01-2012, 09:51 AM	#320
bjake Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Eastern Kentucky Posts: 416	Have been having the mirror flop problem with my KX,seems to happen with just one lens.With any other lens it works properly. Jake

01-03-2012, 12:05 PM	#321
nanadoo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: marion va Photos: Gallery Posts: 28	wow..........I bet I could capture a great pic for WORLD PENTAX DAY IF I HAD MY PENTAX K-5! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

01-03-2012, 01:12 PM	#322
nanadoo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: marion va Photos: Gallery Posts: 28	UPDATE on K-5. Made the second call to the repair center. Good old Randy is sending my request up the chain. Soon Randy will say, "Guys, Rita is on line 1.......someone please send that woman a new K-5! Think of me when you are out shooting for WORLD PENTAX DAY. Shoot pretty and pray I will join you in 2013

01-04-2012, 12:40 AM - 1 Like	#323
bjake Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Eastern Kentucky Posts: 416	Originally posted by bjake Have been having the mirror flop problem with my KX,seems to happen with just one lens.With any other lens it works properly. Jake Have found and fixed the problem with the mirror flopping with the one lens.The aperture lever on the lens was bent a few degrees toward the middle,bent the lever back until it was as near to 90 degrees to the lens base,now it works properly with no lens flop. Jake

01-13-2012, 09:15 PM	#324
Geach New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6	Chalk up another lense flopping K5 here. Got it in mid November, SN starts with 409. Charged the battery overnight, now every single f*cking button sets it off. Was asked to be a photographer at a community event today too. Bought it from B&H when I was living in the US recently. Now I'm going to discover what the warranty is like here in Australia. Not impressed at all.

01-17-2012, 05:42 AM	#326
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	I recall reading in one of the posts (can't find it now) that someone may have isolated mirror flops to a slightly bent aperture lever on their lens. Has anyone confirmed or eliminated this as a cause of mirror flops? My K-5 continues to work fine, no sign of mirror flops. But I currently use only the 18-55 kit lens and rarely dismount it.

01-17-2012, 01:44 PM	#327
toooldtocare Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lake Saint Louis Posts: 126	When mine failed it was due to temperature. It was hot (90+ and sunny) and I had been outside for hours. After it cooled down it started working again. Do not think it had anything to do with the lens. CRIS repaired it and it has been fine since.

01-17-2012, 02:22 PM	#328
DaveXT Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Melbourne Outer East Photos: Albums Posts: 94	Originally posted by Jim Radcliffe Like many here I have recently begun to experience the "Runaway Mirror Flops" with my K5. At first I thought this was a heat related problem as it just recently began while I was using the K5 in 90 to 102 degree outside temperatures. After reading a number of posts here and in other forums which suggested it might be a battery related issue I decided to run a test on my K5 and was able to "force" the mirror flops to occur. Here is what I did. I have three genuine Pentax batteries. One of them was left half discharged and the other two were fully charged overnight in preperation for testing this morning. The outisde temperature during this test was 85 degrees this morning at 7:30AM. I began shooting with the battery that was half discharged. I shot over 25 frames using that battery without a single mirror flop. I had the DA* 50-135mm mounted as this was the same lens I had mounted when the issues began several weeks ago. I then removed the battery and placed one of the fully charged batteries in the camera and shot 3 frames before the camera's mirror began to flop. It flopped when I did a half press of the shutter and it also flopped when I pressed the AF button on the back of the camera. I then removed the fully charged battery and put the half charged battery back in the camera and continued to shoot without a single mirror flop. I then removed that battery and placed my second fully charged battery in the camera and began to shoot again.. four shots into this process the mirror flops began again. I took that battery out and replaced it with the half charged battery and began shooting again...20 frames and not a single mirror flop. I then decided to switch the lens to see if that might have had some connection to the mirror flops. I mounted the 43 Ltd and continued to shoot with the half discharged battery... no mirror flops. I then removed the half discharged battery and replaced it with one of the two fully charged batteries and almost immediately the mirror flops began with the 43 Ltd. mounted on the camera. I pulled that battery and put the half discharged battery back in the camera.. 10 frames and no mirror flops. I then put the second fully charged battery in the camera, shot two frames and the mirror flops began again. To me this seems to suggest that the issue is related to either the voltage output of the fully charged batteries or a voltage regulating component in the K5 itself. The serial numbers of the batteries which caused the flops are: 201101 and 201012. The half discharged battery serial number is: 201011. The two extra batteries I purchased (201011 and 201012) both came from B&H. My gut tells me that if I fully charged the half discharged battery that it would also cause the camera to mirror flop. I will charge it fully tonight and see if that occurs. The more confusing issue is that the mirror flops did not begin until 5 months after I purchased the K5. This leads me to believe that some component in the camera is beginning to fail in some way and makes itself known ONLY when a fully charged battery is being used. This is in line with others saying that the camera finally "settles down" and operates properly. It seems that once the battery discharges a bit after a full charge the issue goes away. Note that the mirror flops have never occured until the last month of use and I have been using the camera a lot since I purchased it in March of 2011. To me, the test I ran this morning with half discharged and fully charged batteries is a clear indication that there is an issue with voltage regulation within the camera itself and this is causing the mirror flops. At no time does the camera ever actually take a picture during the mirror flops. I feel good that I was finally able to actually force the camera to malfunction in this manner and hope that Pentax will look into this problem. I too have the mirror flop issue. I have found it is directly related to the state of charge of the battery and perhaps temperature related due to heat raising battery voltage. I had no issues with the K-5 until it was 3 months old when I took it out of a hot car and placed a fresh charged battery in then it immediately went into mirror flop state. I have 3 batteries for the camera and tested each , Batt#1 8.4 volt temp 25c mirror flop, Batt#2 8.28 volt temp 25c no issue, Batt #3 8.04 volt temp 25c no issue. It seems batteries are over charging or the camera is unable to cope with the higher voltage. Would be nice if Pentax came clean and admitted there was a fault and found a fix for this issue, we can only live in hope!

01-17-2012, 04:27 PM	#329
Jim Radcliffe Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 171 Original Poster	I can't believe that this issue is still going on. They repaired mine and the mirror-flops have not returned but for this to continue and no official statement from Pentax after all this time and all the documented cases just does not make any sense. I can tell you this, if the mirror flops return on my K5 after it was repaired in AZ then I will probably replace the camera.. by "replace" I mean selling all my Pentax gear and switching to another brand.

01-18-2012, 12:59 AM	#330
geezer52 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: High Desert, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 231	You know after re-reading about this problem and how it seemed to be related to the state of the battery, I got to thinking about the problem I had with my K5 locking up and getting a "Battery Depleted" message even tho I was using a freshly charged battery. One of the repair actions CRIS did on my K5 was perform the "Mirror Overrun Modification". ("Mirror Overrun" being the Pentax term for mirror flops). I never experienced the "Flops" issue so I was a little surprised they did that but assumed they were just being proactive about a potential but unrelated problem. Now I wonder if the "Mirror Overrun Modification" isn't a coverall term for a general fix of a known issue in the K5's electronics that is responsible for a number of different problems that K5 owners have been experiencing.