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07-18-2011, 07:23 PM   #1
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Jpeg Shooters?

On previous models there has always been a lot of talk about the Jpeg IQ, but I see little of that with the K5. Some in the past have been pure Jpeg or pure Raw shooters...or like me, shoot Raw+Jpeg.

Just wondering what kind of K5 shooter you are?

I did these from the Jpeg...just trying different settings...these were "Vivid" and they seem satisfactory for my needs, considering the ISO values. I have the Raw files, and no doubt they would be better, but for late evening near dark shooting, they don't disappoint me as Jpegs.

No debate in my mind...if that is what you are thinking...if you want the best and want to have insurance against exposure or WB problems, Raw or Raw+ is the way to go.

ISO 4000......EXIF attached on all of these....
[IMG] [/IMG]

ISO 5000
[IMG] [/IMG]

ISO 12,800
[IMG] [/IMG]

ISO 12,800
[IMG] [/IMG]


Sure, Nat Geo is not going to come around looking for old Rupert, but for an old guy that likes to sit around on the deck in the late evening cool of 95F and snap a few, it works just fine. Some of you real shooters should be able to do wonders with the K5, no doubt about it.

Best Regards!

07-18-2011, 08:42 PM   #2
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My K5 has been set since I got it to record both the JPG and the DNG files. When I get it back from service I will change it to DNG only. I upload all of my stuff into photoshop elements and it will display the two files side by side in the "organizer" They do not display the same. I consistently prefer the rendition displayed in the DNG file over what I see in the JPG file. Presumably this can be changed by tinkering with the development options of the JPG file, but why bother.

the other thing is that when you select a photo out of "Elements Organizer" to edit, if it is a DNG file an intermediate screen opens while you are on the way to the Editor with all the 'sliders' you need to tweak the photo---and usually all the editing that the photo needs except for cropping---and some of these are more difficult to accomplish on a JPG file.

With the availability of very large cards for your camera there is hardly a need to worry about
on camera storage, but I suppose one can worry about how many gigs he fills on the computer hard drive..... (and related back up issues), but I haven't found it a problem yet.

I like to tweak all my photos that I am going to do something with so DNG suits me just fine.
Where I found JPG's better is when I was going for quantity, not quality. When my wife wanted to use the camera to take 10 pictures of each kid in her Sunday School Class working in their coloring book, with the idea of dumping them onto a CD, and passing them out to
proud parents---then JPG was fine. ------delete the accidental photos of the ceiling and the floor, and a few others that were not recognizable---mass copy the rest to a CD/DVD, and head for the 'frig' for a tall cool one.....

On the other hand, if you have been wandering the planet for most of a lifetime with $3000 of camera equipment at the ready for the photo of the lifetime, when the time comes you don't want to end up with nothing usable because the camera was set to take low resolution jpgs' and you were so excited that you couldn't figure out how to change it---or the photo was intended to be a photo of a charging bears tonsils just before he swallowed you in one large gulp, and there wasn't time to change it....
07-18-2011, 10:09 PM   #3
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Otis

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
On previous models there has always been a lot of talk about the Jpeg IQ, but I see little of that with the K5. Some in the past have been pure Jpeg or pure Raw shooters...or like me, shoot Raw+Jpeg.

Just wondering what kind of K5 shooter you are?

I did these from the Jpeg...just trying different settings...these were "Vivid" and they seem satisfactory for my needs, considering the ISO values. I have the Raw files, and no doubt they would be better, but for late evening near dark shooting, they don't disappoint me as Jpegs.

No debate in my mind...if that is what you are thinking...if you want the best and want to have insurance against exposure or WB problems, Raw or Raw+ is the way to go.

ISO 4000......EXIF attached on all of these....
[/url] [/IMG]

ISO 5000
[/url] [/IMG]

ISO 12,800
[/url] [/IMG]

ISO 12,800
[/url] [/IMG]


Sure, Nat Geo is not going to come around looking for old Rupert, but for an old guy that likes to sit around on the deck in the late evening cool of 95F and snap a few, it works just fine. Some of you real shooters should be able to do wonders with the K5, no doubt about it.

Best Regards!
Otis sold me on the camera his girl friends pin-ups were out standing
07-18-2011, 11:12 PM   #4
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Hi Rupert,

I pretty much always shoot jpegs. I just like and use the speed gains all the way through the process from shooting to final output. I'm not paranoid about lost shots. If I mess up an exposure, I miss the shot, and that's just the way it goes -- and for me, this keeps me more involved in the shooting process. I don't depend on photography to pay the rent, so lost shots are only a disappointment. . . and NG hasn't been knocking at my door either. . .

I'm not by any means saying that there aren't advantages to shooting RAW -- just that for me, the balance of pluses to minuses always seems to tip towards jpegs.

When I first got my K-5, I was really disappointed with the high ISO jpegs, but with a little fiddling I found that high ISO jpeg IQ is helped considerably by setting in-camera Sharpening to (-4) to keep noise artifacts to a minimum.

I haven't favored in-camera sharpening since Pentax changed the algorithms to emphasize the dark side of the edge as this causes dark outlines where they should not appear when sharpening with a deconvolution sharpening program is applied. Even at (-4) this still happens, so I'm assuming that it's built into the jpeg engine.

I use Topaz Denoise and InFocus for NR and sharpening (deconvolution and micro contrast only) in post. Only relatively light applications are needed of each if I do my part, so even at ISO 5000-10000, I can get pretty good results. I find that fine detail starts to break up a little too much at 12800, but 10000 is not too shabby, IMO, especially considering that I usually limited my K-20 and K-7 to ISO 1250, so I'm getting an extra 3 stops with better results.

I've probably posted some of these before, so excuse that, but here are some examples:

At ISO 5000 DA 55-300


ISO 6400 Sigma EX 180 Macro


ISO 8000 Sigma EX 180 Macro


ISO 10000 Sigma EX 180 Macro


The K-5 makes my life a whole lot less complicated. . .

Scott

Edit: Reading some of the other posts prompted me to add that I've also turned off all in-camera High ISO NR for all ISO levels as any setting smears detail too much for me.


Last edited by snostorm; 07-19-2011 at 09:02 PM.
07-19-2011, 01:29 AM   #5
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I shoot sometimes RAW and sometimes Jpg. I do switch off all noise reductionsettings in the camera since I don't like the way my image gets smeard with hi iso settings in camera-processing.

I change to jpg when I need the speed from the camera to have faster access to my camera when shooting sports at hi-speed settings. The time taking to flush the RAW files is to me sometimes to long. So when light conditions are well controlled then either the AW or a preset made with my expodisc is a good start.

In RAW:


In Jpg, since this round is only 3 minutes (off actual fighttime) and I don't want to spend half off that time waiting for my K-5 to process:


Expodisc setting in a mallshop:
07-19-2011, 03:14 AM   #6
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Very nice contribution Scott. It's an oft-asked question Rupert, but a difficult one to answer well given the variety of shooting and PP preferences.

My own is for RAW since I have the patience for doing PP and I know that I can do it my way.
Otherwise, once you have the right 'formula' for your JPEGs to be processed in camera, then JPEG is indeed the way to go.
07-19-2011, 06:16 AM   #7
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These are all sensible replies....that is, they all make sense. Different needs for different shooters and situations.

Ron, that is a very fine boxing shot.. as an old fighter, the only problem I see is that guy on the left should have been throwing a hard right....and your shooting would have been over....except for the final shot,which would not be on glossy, but on canvas.
Best Regards!
07-19-2011, 08:12 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
On previous models there has always been a lot of talk about the Jpeg IQ, but I see little of that with the K5.
Perhaps owners of the top-of-the-line cameras feel they should try to get all they can from the image. Converts :-)

07-19-2011, 01:26 PM   #9
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I wouldn't claim I normally need the extra leeway shooting RAW gives me, but to me it feels almost like a crime not to make the most (IQ wise) out of this fantastic camera

So, always RAW+JPEG for me. But so far I have used the jpegs for nothing more than a quick preview of what I've got before importing them, so I guess I could just as well switch to RAW only. It should give me another 100 shots on each 16GB card...
07-19-2011, 01:45 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
So, always RAW+JPEG for me. But so far I have used the jpegs for nothing more than a quick preview of what I've got before importing them, so I guess I could just as well switch to RAW only. It should give me another 100 shots on each 16GB card...
That is also a very valid reason. I have still one 16GB card and 3 32GB cards. When shooting jpg you can fit a lot more on a card. Just reversed reasoning
07-19-2011, 02:15 PM   #11
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A few times I have regretted that I didn't have a Raw file......and a couple of those times it was of enough significance that I almost always shoot Raw or Jpeg+ since then.

There are valid reasons for every shooter to use what they shoot, same as with in camera settings and ISO selection.

I still do not understand the Canon guy I know that swears he has never taken a shot above ISO 100.....and is steadfast on his refusal to go higher. Which shows, you can get ridiculous.....if you are missing shots or unable to process what you get, it is likely that you should at least consider doing something different.

Best Regards!
07-19-2011, 02:25 PM   #12
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The first photo looks very weird. Did you selectively sharpen the bird? The top of the bird's head does not appear to have noise, while the rest of the bird does. Also, look at the bird's beak and right foot.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
ISO 4000......EXIF attached on all of these....
[/url] [/IMG]
07-19-2011, 08:03 PM   #13
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same here, the bird looks more like 12800 ISO than Mr Otis
07-19-2011, 08:30 PM   #14
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Yes, the first bird is very sloppily and quickly processed...no doubt about it. I seldom take any time with processing Jpegs...and even with Raw shots I am no Guru...but I do admit this was sloppy work...or more like play....

Otis at 12,800 is indeed much better....and I can't really claim much for that....maybe just better luck!

No excuse here.....you guys know what you are looking at.....of course I could go on to find some excuses....I've been known to do that, but only because it seems fashionable nowadays or PC or something I don't understand....

So to please the "Herd" as I have heard said a time or two.....

It could be that.....
* I am old and forget what I am doing halfway through processing ( Honest, there is some truth to that one! )

* Mrs Rupert walked in my office as I was viewing naked girls from the Post Your Photo Forum, and it rattled my mind when I went to process these shots. (Didn't happen...but it could have!)

*My eyes, although 20/20 are just not as good as the ornithologist says they are....but what does he know about eyes anyhow?

*I was hallucinating after drinking from that bottle of beer Otis passed to me out on the deck.....when he told me he had spit in it, I had already taken a sip, and the world seemed to be spinning.......even though I quickly handed the bottle back to him.

*Lastly, it could be that you guys are just jealous of sloppy processing, and don't like Squirrels either? That's not my thoughts, but it is what Otis said to type...so I did.

Anyhow, thanks for pointing out the flaws, I usually have so many I can spot them a mile away....it is good to know someone else can too in case I miss some!

Best Regards!
Rupert
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