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07-30-2011, 11:39 AM   #31
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Rubert---Your over-emotional derogatory rant was predictable and irrelevant to what I said in my post which is what you do best. More then a couple people have called you on your fan-boy ways and your derogatory comments to other form members so be a man and quit winning.

When you read someones post you are like a horse with blinders on racing for Pentax heaven which results in zero reading comprehension on your part. Yes we are all aware you have a "flawless" K5 because you keep reminding us over and over every time someone tries to discuss their problem. Pentax is not a person it is a "for profit corporation" You know that..right.

Since ThorThum's K5 self-destructed so badly I am hoping Pentax just replaces it very quickly and shows him they do care about his business and treat him as he should be treated....A person that invested allot of his money in their product that they want to retain as a future customer. Everybody wins when a customer is properly taken care of. Excuses are just excuses.

Try to take life easier Rubert so you can keep posting your helpful posts. Best of luck to you!

07-30-2011, 11:59 AM   #32
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It seems as though the K-5 is God's gift to Pentaxians. This may be the case, but much credit goes to Sony and the cuttiing-sensor Pentax procured from them. Pentax did a terrific job integrating it within the K-5. No debate there.

Come to think of it, the only Pentax DSLR cameras anyone noticed all had Sony sensors.

OP: I sympathize with your situation. Hopefully it gets resolved quickly at no or little cost to you.
07-30-2011, 12:22 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
The vast majority here have no problems with their K5....if you can count....start counting. How is it that on the one hand you are so sure that the K5 is riddled with problems.....and on the other you admit you "do not know"?

This is not the only Pentax Forum on the internet (it is the best) and if you shop around on them all, my statement of the vast majority having no problems holds true, while yours just doesn't.

I owe Pentax not a damn thing, when the sensor stains showed up, and the focus issues, I beat Pentax half to death....close enough to almost be banned here....and still owe them nothing. What I have written about my K5 on this Forum has been the honest truth, and I have been very excited by this fine camera....and still am...and I am not alone by a long shot. When Pentax took care of the issues that were fatal, like the sensor stains and focus issues, I bought one, as I had said I would do, and when it was perfect I acknowledged it here loud and clear, apparently to the disgust of some that wanted to bury Pentax and continue to kick dirt on their grave. When a camera maker...or anyone else admits their problem, repairs it, stands behind their warranty and produces a great camera, I am willing to acknowledge that and move on, just enjoying the product I have. Some are not so forgiving, and will most likely still be bashing the K5 and Pentax years from now. Maybe it is like some disease......although I am no psychologist, I know what I see.

Now, close you eyes, hold your nose, and take another dose of this medicine called truth. The K5 is a great camera, miles ahead of past Pentax models, capable of delivering what no other Pentax has ever delivered, along with joy and fun in abundance and in a well balanced package that offers as much or more than any of its competitors in its class.
I have a lot of friends here, they are good people, and I damn sure would not push them toward a K5 if I thought for a second that your opinion was right and my facts were wrong.

Like I said, I am no psychologist, and can't diagnose a persons motives, but my motives are based on the K5 in my hands, and believe me, it is terrific beyond all the hype and praise I have given it. The magic can only be felt, not properly described, although I have tried.....everyone knows that.

Does the K5 have problems.....do other brands have problems.......do billion dollar technical devices have problems....yes they do. My K5 is subject to problems like anyone elses and like those here that have felt that magic, if it breaks I will get another one or have it repaired. When you see those that are on their 3rd or 4th K5, which is truly a QC issue that should never be....I do agree.....then you know just how wonderful the K5 must be to keep coming back for more.....and there is a simple reason for that........it is wonderful! But...to assume that the majority have had those kinds of problems is just not factual or within a reasonable and fair assessment of what we see here or on other sites.

You can continue to dig that K5 grave...it is your right...and I will keep filling up the hole and putting the K5 up on a pedestal.....where it belongs.

Best Regards
Rupert
I must say that this is one of the most condescending responses I have ever seen on any forum... Including Leica forums.. which are known for such dribble. I had hoped that Pentax would be free of such blindness. I guess Fanboys exist everywhere. I found it to be inappropriate, juvenile and totally lacking empathy for those whose cameras are suffering from problems.

I happen to own one of the Pentax K5s that has the Mirror Flops. I am not alone and no matter how many owners have "Perfect" cameras do not think for a moment that those with problems are over blowing them. They are real, they are not going away. So don't be so quick to discount what those of us with problem cameras report. I did not buy a K5 and a bunch of Limited and DA* lenses just so I could gripe about the camera. I bought it because I like it and decided it was a better option on a number of levels than my Canon 5D MKII and L glass.

So, when I read a bunch of HS like that above it tends to irritate me just a bit.

My guess is that if your "Perfect" camera does eventually develop any of these problems that you will remember the above response you served here. Rupert, I will remember that name.
07-30-2011, 12:22 PM   #34
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jcp5, let's stick to a more general rather than personal discussion of the issue at hand here. Bear in mind that it's easier to focus on individual problems of a product than to consider the overall success and reliability of it. The K-5 is a decent case in point.

Jim, if you knew Rupert well, you'd recognise his 'style' of posts here on the forum - you'd not know he's level-headed from them, but they are his way of expressing himself. In any case, again, please let's avoid personal remarks and stick to the topic at hand more objectively.

The forum is, by human nature, going to feature emotional responses to perceived or real product defects. Not as often will members report positive experiences, and this can be for a number of reasons, not least of which is because they're busy using their equipment rather than discussing it.

So let's keep things in perspective and if you have improperly functioning gear, have it sorted out by your local Pentax repairer. All the best in that.


Last edited by Ash; 07-30-2011 at 12:36 PM.
07-30-2011, 12:33 PM   #35
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I don't own a K-5, so perhaps I don't have the right to comment here. I have, however, been a long-time member of this forum and have read many such threads where people have an issue with a lens/camera. That is a good thing, particularly if the camera is outside warranty since it gives the manufacturer an indication of potential quality issues. (Yes, Pentax and other makers do monitor the various online forums.)

What is not a good thing is for people to assume that a report or even multiple reports constitute a systemic lapse in QA. According to Consumer Reports, Pentax reliability for dSLRs runs at 4% requiring replacement or repair. This is same figure for Sony, Canon, and Olympus. Nikon trails the pack at 6%. I think it is reasonable to assume that less than 5% failure is the de facto industry standard for photographic consumer electronics and constitutes an acceptable level of liability for repair as opposed to increased diligence and rejection rate in assembly.

Even more unreasonable is the argument that the more you pay, the greater your right to be indignant when the camera fails. I have a friend who is an avid Canon shooter and has replaced her 7D twice on-warranty and has had it at C.R.I.S. for repair an additional time off-warranty. That is three bodies each with a fatal issue. Does Canon make junk? Hard to say, but I do know where the price point of the 7D is in relation to the K-5. Apparently the extra $300 does not buy much more reliability. (BTW...my friend was not happy about the failures, but she is a serious photographer and rolls with the punches. She also keeps a 50D as a backup body.)

Also...In regards to the cost issue. Sorry to say, but $1400 USD (the current price of a K-5 body in N. America), is not particularly expensive, except as compared to entry level cameras. I would enthusiastically suggest that the K-r or whatever from other makers deliver much higher value than cameras such as the K-5. That being said, the K-5 is very competitively priced in its build/feature/performance bracket, but those cameras are still not really that expensive. The real higher-end options are 2x-3x the price of the K-5 with the price going even higher for digital medium format (yes, the 645D is the value queen in that realm...even at $10,000 USD). If you doubt, just look up the price of a Phase One back.

Anyone care to venture a guess as to the failure rate of the high-priced stuff? Do you really think the pros never have to send their gear to the shop?


Steve
07-30-2011, 12:36 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcp5 Quote
Rubert---Your over-emotional derogatory rant was predictable and irrelevant to what I said in my post which is what you do best. More then a couple people have called you on your fan-boy ways and your derogatory comments to other form members so be a man and quit winning.

When you read someones post you are like a horse with blinders on racing for Pentax heaven which results in zero reading comprehension on your part. Yes we are all aware you have a "flawless" K5 because you keep reminding us over and over every time someone tries to discuss their problem. Pentax is not a person it is a "for profit corporation" You know that..right.

Since ThorThum's K5 self-destructed so badly I am hoping Pentax just replaces it very quickly and shows him they do care about his business and treat him as he should be treated....A person that invested allot of his money in their product that they want to retain as a future customer. Everybody wins when a customer is properly taken care of. Excuses are just excuses.

Try to take life easier Rubert so you can keep posting your helpful posts. Best of luck to you!

It would be hard for me to say the K5 is a nice mediocre camera that most have problems with, when that is just not what we see here day after day. We see enthusiastic owners, most with few if any problems. If reporting that is offensive, then I certainly man up to it.

As for those with problems, I sympathize, have never denied their existence , and have never belittled them for reporting their negative experiences. I want justice for each one of them and in a timely manner, as I would for myself. If they are not treated fairly I will squeal for them like a stuck pig if they don't feel they can do it themselves. Again, what do I owe Pentax...not a damn thing...but I do love this K5, and I thank Hoya for it,even though I have absolutely no use for Hoya and have made that very clear many times. I'm hoping for better results and communications with owners from Ricoh for the benefit of the Pentax Brand and for all loyal Pentax users. In a word...Hoya sucks.

Now, I don't need to be in any fights here, my big mouth can quickly get me in trouble, and has more often than I like......Mrs Rupert has a holster just for a broom to slap me around several times a day...so you can continue to express your beliefs, as I am in favor of that liberty here or anywhere, and I will continue my praise of the K5....ridiculous or not, overboard or not, and let others decide if I am right or not. From what I see, I am way ahead on those opinions.
Looking at the "Post Your K5 Photos" thread, I am not seeing a lot of whiners there....are you?

Anyhow, help keep me from getting in too much trouble......just pretend I am an old guy that talks with Squirrels and it will be easier to humor me.....

Best Regards!
07-30-2011, 12:36 PM   #37
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That is a pitty. Well it is under warrenty. So that should be fine.
07-30-2011, 12:52 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I don't own a K-5, so perhaps I don't have the right to comment here. I have, however, been a long-time member of this forum and have read many such threads where people have an issue with a lens/camera. That is a good thing, particularly if the camera is outside warranty since it gives the manufacturer an indication of potential quality issues. (Yes, Pentax and other makers do monitor the various online forums.)

What is not a good thing is for people to assume that a report or even multiple reports constitute a systemic lapse in QA. According to Consumer Reports, Pentax reliability for dSLRs runs at 4% requiring replacement or repair. This is same figure for Sony, Canon, and Olympus. Nikon trails the pack at 6%. I think it is reasonable to assume that less than 5% failure is the de facto industry standard for photographic consumer electronics and constitutes an acceptable level of liability for repair as opposed to increased diligence and rejection rate in assembly.

Steve
All things mechanical and electronic will fail.. usually after considerable use but failures out of the box are not uncommon. My camera did not begin to fail until I had used it extensively for a period of 4 months. Did it anger me, no, but the disappointment was considerable.

What has angered me is the consistent response that the repair centers are giving.. "We've never heard of that." Which simply can not be true. I am going to send my K5 in for repair because I have no other options. It's too late to return it to B&H for a new one. But once I send it in for repair with full documentation... I may even include a link to my own camera failing in a video... I better not read that repair centers are not aware of such a problem.

Let's talk about costs for a moment. I have a friend who has spent close to $30,000 on his Leica gear. The money is really nothing to him.. he's loaded. I have other friends who have saved for the last year just to buy a $1,500 camera. The point is that no matter what the gear costs we, as consumers, have a right to expect a product that works as it was designed to work... and we have every right to demand and expect quality in the products we purchase.

07-30-2011, 01:03 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Radcliffe Quote
Let's talk about costs for a moment. I have a friend who has spent close to $30,000 on his Leica gear. The money is really nothing to him.. he's loaded. I have other friends who have saved for the last year just to buy a $1,500 camera. The point is that no matter what the gear costs we, as consumers, have a right to expect a product that works as it was designed to work... and we have every right to demand and expect quality in the products we purchase.
Fair comment, however despite our 'demands' we cannot sensibly expect that electronic equipment regardless of its workmanship and QA will remain reliable, as you already mentioned yourself.

Hence, as unfortunate as gear failure is, it is up to us to either get mad about it, blaming Pentax for every ill experienced, or simply get it fixed and move on with the knowledge that the gear is not as indestructible as once thought.
07-30-2011, 01:10 PM   #40
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How pitiful am I. I have had the K-5 fail, and I still want the new K-4-3-2-1 whatever.. Come on Pentax wow us with the next one.
07-30-2011, 01:36 PM   #41
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Those pieces are from lens. I had to fix sometime before Da 16-45 because autofocus was some what screwed after a drop. I opened the lens and one of those pieces had fell from its place and stuck inside lens to sort autofocus contacts. Those pieces are form back part of lens and just under the mechanics that control aperture. Your lens can work fine even without those pieces, since those work just like adjusting washers under screws, and don't directly affect usage of lens.

There are 4 of those pieces inside DA 16-45 and most likely same with 16-50.

You should also send your lens for fixing too. Since thats the cause of trouble and unfortunately broke also your K-5
07-30-2011, 01:42 PM   #42
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I think you're correct, for what it's worth. The curvature of the parts would indicate this.

QuoteOriginally posted by ollibe Quote
Those pieces are from lens. I had to fix sometime before Da 16-45 because autofocus was some what screwed after a drop. I opened the lens and one of those pieces had fell from its place and stuck inside lens to sort autofocus contacts. Those pieces are form back part of lens and just under the mechanics that control aperture. Your lens can work fine even without those pieces, since those work just like adjusting washers under screws, and don't directly affect usage of lens.

There are 4 of those pieces inside DA 16-45 and most likely same with 16-50.

So if those metal pieces that fell from camera did not damage electronics or mirror in K-5, your camera should be fine. but your lens should be send for fix at least.
07-30-2011, 01:47 PM   #43
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I'm gonna resist......will someone restrain me! Hold my hand, tape my big mouth, tell me to calm down, send me two Valium and a shot of fine Cognac.....

Regards!
07-30-2011, 02:12 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by ollibe Quote
Those pieces are from lens. I had to fix sometime before Da 16-45 because autofocus was some what screwed after a drop. I opened the lens and one of those pieces had fell from its place and stuck inside lens to sort autofocus contacts. Those pieces are form back part of lens and just under the mechanics that control aperture. Your lens can work fine even without those pieces, since those work just like adjusting washers under screws, and don't directly affect usage of lens.

There are 4 of those pieces inside DA 16-45 and most likely same with 16-50.

You should also send your lens for fixing too. Since thats the cause of trouble and unfortunately broke also your K-5
QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy97 Quote
I think you're correct, for what it's worth. The curvature of the parts would indicate this.
So exactly how would they fall Out of the lens, past the sealed mount, end up in the mirror box? AND, the lens remain useable?
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07-30-2011, 02:28 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by nah Quote
Then there was the issue with someone's lens release button falling off. It's such a weird occurrence that these parts would fall off...

I checked mine and I don't know how a button like that could just fall off.
Funny. Mine just fell off two days ago. Just fell fight off. You can't change lenses without it, because you can't depress the thing. I put it back on, but it won't stay there. So I have some gaffers tape holding it on until I can afford to be without it for a little while. Very odd. But every brand/camera has it's own issue, as well as just the random things that sometimes fail. We're just more aware of our own...
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