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08-17-2011, 07:19 PM   #16
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A P/S (point and shoot) camera is much better for those who need a green mode. No dSLR can replicate the advantages of the P/S. As you know P/S has qualities that make it better for none enthusiasts. First they have nearly unlimited DOF even wide open. The SR system in them is very good; the small sensor can be moved fast. The contrast detection AF system will find something to get a focus on and the whole pic will be sharp, and never miss the shot.

You won't find her coming home or even a 10 year old coming home with OOF pics while using a P/S. And(!) the pics will look great with a good 12X decent quality P/S. They also have advance modes such a Aperture, Shutter, Manual... modes so they can learn the different modes and move up from there. This way every shot will be a good sharp picture and no frustrations trying to learn a dSLR system.

Point and shoot camera can do things that a dSLR in green mode just can't do, there is nothing wrong with them or the pics they make. I would get a P/S for her if she prefers.


Last edited by jamesm007; 08-17-2011 at 07:34 PM.
08-17-2011, 07:23 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by George Lama Quote
Still makes no sense. To stick with my analogy of my prescription glasses, would I take them off just because I turn on my car's cruise control? Oy!
Great analogy--Oy, indeed!
08-18-2011, 03:53 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by George Lama Quote
Still makes no sense. To stick with my analogy of my prescription glasses, would I take them off just because I turn on my car's cruise control? Oy!
I don't know that it is applicable. The question is one of expertise. I think it is more like a person who has no skill in eye examinations and went on line and picked a pair of prescription glasses that he thought "might" work for him and then proceeded to complain that his vision was actually worse than before.

I don't use the green mode and few on the forum do either. But those who do are more likely to make things worse rather than better by messing around with auto focus adjustment without understanding what it does.

That said, I can see the OP's perspective and think it would make sense for the auto focus adjustments to stay in place in that situation.
08-19-2011, 04:36 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
A P/S (point and shoot) camera is much better for those who need a green mode. No dSLR can replicate the advantages of the P/S. As you know P/S has qualities that make it better for none enthusiasts. First they have nearly unlimited DOF even wide open. The SR system in them is very good; the small sensor can be moved fast. The contrast detection AF system will find something to get a focus on and the whole pic will be sharp, and never miss the shot.

You won't find her coming home or even a 10 year old coming home with OOF pics while using a P/S. And(!) the pics will look great with a good 12X decent quality P/S. They also have advance modes such a Aperture, Shutter, Manual... modes so they can learn the different modes and move up from there. This way every shot will be a good sharp picture and no frustrations trying to learn a dSLR system.

Point and shoot camera can do things that a dSLR in green mode just can't do, there is nothing wrong with them or the pics they make. I would get a P/S for her if she prefers.
You are right, its silly of her to carry this huge camera. I bought the Canon Powershot SX230 HS which should be just fine.

08-19-2011, 04:42 AM   #20
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A dSLR is not for the 'don't have to think about DoF' photographer.
If it were the case, f/16 might suffice but limit light input to the larger sensor - so P&S does well in those cases.
But for the majority of enthusiasts, this is not the desired outcome.
08-20-2011, 07:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
You are right, its silly of her to carry this huge camera. I bought the Canon Powershot SX230 HS which should be just fine.
I looked at the camera you bought her and its amazing how far P/S have come along. For those like me who don't study P/S anymore see this list...

1. Built in GPS
2. Stereo mics
3. 28-400mm f/3.1-5.9 14X zoom lens (pretty good optical quality per IR)
4. Flash sync 1/2000; max shutter speed 1/3200
5. M, Av, Tv, Auto, various scenes and HD move mode
6. ISO 100-3200
7. ISO 100-400 is completely usable viewing on the screen or printing 11X14 (e.g. no pixel peeping); Thats very good performance compared to 5 years ago.
8. 12Mp
9. Full HD stereo video recorder onto SD cards
10. Image stabilizer (not software, but moving parts IS)


I was into photography 30 years ago and developed B/W film in school but Hi-Fi quickly became my hobby. Over the course of my lifetime I still wanted to be in photography in the back of my mind. I bought a Kodak DC5000 for nearly $800 11 years ago. It was a 2mp all weather camera, that was as large as a K10D with a 50mm lens on it. The Kodak could take a 3' drop onto concrete with no damage to the insides (might get a mark or two!). I still have this camera. This was my introduction into digital photography. I had Adobe Photoshop and enjoyed making pics I have to this day from it. However the IQ did not spark me enough to get into photography as a real hobby.

One day about 5 years ago I decided I needed a new more Mp digital camera to keep up with the current crop of P/S cameras. Plus I wanted one of those 12X zooms. I bought a Kodak Z612 6mp 36mm-432mm image stabilized lens. I was shocked at how good a pic it could make. The image quality of that camera is what hooked me big time into photography. I would take pics of everything, it never left my hand.

You can follow my whole photography experience by looking up my name "jamesm007" at DPR. Go to the Kodak forum and then Pentax SLR forum.

Today's P/S cameras can take pics that rival PRO SLR Film gear when printing no larger than 10X8. That's whats amazing. That's why everyone has a camera on them even if in their cell phones. The IQ is superb compared to those 2mp digital cameras of 10 or so years ago.

Its also why many get hooked into photography and want the ultimate machine; the Digital Single Lens Reflex (dSLR). Many get disappointed in not knowing you have to go to f/8 or higher to get nice DOF. Many get frustrated at the amount of OOF shots. Its not for everyone!

I know your wife will really enjoy the pics she makes and may even make you look silly sometimes with her IQ that is darn near as good as yours LOL
08-20-2011, 12:48 PM   #22
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But...

Then why does it have a green mode at all?
IMHO I think this is a HUGE shortcoming, at least from marketing point of view.
I never use green, but many people do.

Now, think. One fellow goes to Pentax repair shop, tells them his new lens is bad. He is using Green.
They adjust the lens, set the cam to P, and send it back.
What will the guy think, when the lens is still bad?
08-20-2011, 01:23 PM   #23
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I don't know the K5, but I heard with some models the Pentax service had access to seperate AF calibration settings. It seems such a calibration would be made the "zero" modification for the user AF correction (instead of the original factory setting). I am not sure whether this was a rumour only (don't know anymore where I got this informaton from), but it would make sense, wouldn't it?. Maybe someone here in the forum has better information.

08-23-2011, 04:58 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by RKKS08 Quote
I don't know the K5, but I heard with some models the Pentax service had access to separate AF calibration settings. It seems such a calibration would be made the "zero" modification for the user AF correction (instead of the original factory setting). I am not sure whether this was a rumour only (don't know anymore where I got this informaton from), but it would make sense, wouldn't it?. Maybe someone here in the forum has better information.
Its true, a service center has much more adjustments that you have with AF fine tuning. The AF module can be moved in 3 dimensions. The reason is the sensor may not be perfectly flat. This requires special equipment just to do this job. They can also alter other settings you can't. The last resort for them is doing a FF/BF check with a lens. The service center tuned my AF and I had to redo all my AF fine tunings. AF fine tuning is a must have feature but does not fix all AF problems only Pentax service centers can do that.

Here is a link to all the service manuals up to the K10D. They had to remove the Samsung ones that went to the GX20 (I have that one to). Note for the very first Pentax digital dSLR to the K10D nothing changed as far as how things work inside. All cameras had 3 screws to adjust the AF module. I will assume but don't know for a fact that the K-5 does as well. It would have to have more adjustments than just AF fine tune. Suppose the SR system was not holding the sensor platter perfectly square with the lens; remember its free floating? There is a ton of adjustments and parts and gears and have a look

http://www.pentax-hack.info/documents/downloads.html

Last edited by jamesm007; 08-23-2011 at 05:05 AM.
08-24-2011, 01:08 AM   #25
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Still not convinced. Why adjust the AF module, when it's a lens issue in the first place?

If available, the Green mode should change the camera behavior completely. It could go as far as having a completely different menu structure, since it's adressed to a special type of consumer.
What use to turn some features off? Do you want to convince my mother to set the knob to P, in order to acces the full menu? Better design a different menu for that type of user.
Keep in mind that user friendliness is a good salesman.

For ex: in Panasonic TZ 20, the focus area is chosen with your finger on the screen. Obviously, in LV.
Now, I love the optical viewfinders, but sometimes I switch to LV. Such a feature would be a great plus. Not to mention that the sensitive capacitive screen could turn itself off when you approach the camera to the face.

Octav
08-24-2011, 05:12 AM   #26
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More latter I have to go to work ;(

The K20D does apply the AF fine tuning adjustment in green mode. I just took some test pics. What ever AF fine tuning I apply shows up in Photome in green mode. For example if I tuned it +10 in Av mode it showed +10 in green mode using PhotoMe to look at the data.

I do know the author of Photome stopped updating the program some time ago perhaps its giving a false reading for the K-5 or the K-5 has a bug! I will show full evidence if needed latter.
09-15-2011, 11:35 AM   #27
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The Canon P&S worked faily well. The two issues were there was significant lens flare on many of the outdoor shots, even in scenes where I wouldn't expect one and for some reason the flash stopped working in the 'auto' mode so many shots at iso 1600 (which is failry clean) and some blurred ones.
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