10 000 iso

NicoleAu · 08-28-2011, 10:34 PM

And this is Pentax's response... I find it funny how they say they can't see anything but the pattern ( I sent them a copy of the banding above)

We have reviewed your images and we cannot tell anything for sure from 2 of these photos because there is no EXIF data. We didn't notice any unusual banding artifacts in the little girl or the man close-up pictures. In the 7M file you sent we can't see anything in the way of an image except a black and white pattern. It does have some limited EXIF data indicating the shot was taken at ISO 12800, an extremely high setting. Our cameras perform very well at high ISO but at very high settings we cannot guarantee there won't be banding or other artifacts in the image. If you want to resend your images they need to be sent as original image files so the EXIF data is intact. Don't crop or edit the photos in any way. Or we need to know the particulars of the shots, i.e. ISO, White Balance, Custom Image settings, original file format (RAW, DNG or JPG).

JeffJS · 08-28-2011, 10:42 PM

Maybe you need to mark the photos up with red arrows and circles showing what you're concerned about.

I have the feeling this sort of response is a typical first answer from most service departments (blame the user).

amoringello · 08-29-2011, 02:21 AM

Call and talk to them. They are not very open to accepting problems. (Like JeffJS said, this is typical for many service departments, and is very true for Pentax)
I was on the phone with three tech for about two to three hours explaining the problem with multiple-exposure.
I actually sat on the phone as they received example files to make sure I was able to point out the problem (hand holding them like kindergarteners!!).

They finally did see the problem, but it takes a lot of effort.
I DO NOT like their support personnel. They are very quick to blame the user.

But with that, their comments on how to send the file are valid, but I think the statement that they cannot see the banding is a cop-out.
The lines are quite clear. You may have to ask if their monitor has been calibrated. :-) :-)

I honestly do not believe the support techs have proper means for diagnosing issues, you will likely need to get this pushed up to a manager on duty so that he can get it in the hands of an engineer.

ytterbium · 08-29-2011, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Maybe you need to mark the photos up with red arrows and circles showing what you're concerned about.

I have the feeling this sort of response is a typical first answer from most service departments (blame the user).

Yes and no. I think its only reasonable to expect original, unedited output for diagnostics. I'm surprised why would you send only edited ones. Actually i bet they'd be a lot happier to get RAW files. You can supply additional edited versions of the files where you point out the problem and make it easier to notice.

But telling that they cant see the bands makes me think you'll have hard time with them. I can clearly see them on my uncalibrated, cheap, discolored LCD. Whenever i've had any warranty issues only few times it has gone the way it should be (within reasonable time-frame, cost free, without the need to argue and repeatedly being redirected between several places).

NicoleAu · 08-29-2011, 04:02 AM

Yeah, it's just the raw files are 19mb and up, the one of my husband was 25.6mb which is beyond even gmails limit. I really cannot understand why they can't see the banding either, it's pretty obvious to me. And I acknowledge that the 12800 is high, but 6400 shouldn't have obvious banding issues, noise yes, but not banding.

TOUGEFC · 08-29-2011, 04:36 AM

It looks to me that something is wrong with your sensor, just as the others said send them back with deailed arrows and circles of the problem area.

Was your K-5 a new local cam, or did you pick up a refurbed oversea's cam?

JeffJS · 08-29-2011, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by ytterbium

Yes and no. I think its only reasonable to expect original, unedited output for diagnostics. I'm surprised why would you send only edited ones. Actually i bet they'd be a lot happier to get RAW files. You can supply additional edited versions of the files where you point out the problem and make it easier to notice.

RAW or JPG is irrelevant at this point. Converted from RAW with no modifications (NR, Sharpening, etc) would give them the same information. They've apparently missed seeing the problem, as Nicole posts in their response, so now it's time to point it out to them.

There are places where RAW files can be uploaded for them to download if need be and if that's what they want to see (Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire) but you may need to find one that will support that big of a file (without paying money).

tabl10s · 08-29-2011, 10:30 AM

Off Topic:

You eat Marmite?!

RioRico · 08-29-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by tabl10s

Off Topic:

You eat Marmite?!

In Soviet Queensland, Marmite eats YOU!!

NicoleAu · 09-18-2011, 04:20 AM

So far nothing has been resolved. Randall at Pentax seems to be ignoring both mine and the customer service reps emails. Tonight when using the camera, a thin red line has appeared down the back screen of the camera, I switched it on and off and it is still there. I am completely underwhelmed with the Pentax customer service and the 'quality' of their cameras. I am frustrated at them for pretending to not see anything wrong as well as their dealing with the issue by ignoring it.

JeffJS · 09-18-2011, 05:27 AM

Can't you print a photo, mark it up to show the banding, and just send the camera to Pentax? Seems like you should be able to get warranty service without going through all this bullshit.

Smeggypants · 09-18-2011, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by AOShep

Supports my theory that the best noise control is a proper exposure. I've tried high ISO but nothing this controlled, just shots in the dark which gave me lots of noise.

that's because if the scene is mostly dark the camera will try and expose that as a midtone ( almost akin to night vision

). Answer is to either underexpose when shooting, or perhaps better turn down the exposure in PP

Smeggypants · 09-18-2011, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by NicoleAu

This is mine at 12800 with the same treatment as Jeffs but in LR

I get that kind of banding from my K-5s when shooting at 51200. Not on every shot though. I've no idea what particular conditions trigger it. I notice your use LR3. I do. maybe it's a manifestation of Lightroom's processing?

NicoleAu · 09-18-2011, 02:36 PM

From what I can gather, it's showing in darker or shadowed areas when shooting in high ISO. I took photos down in the store srrom and the bright areas were fine, but shadowed areas showed banding. Shooting a night landscape also showed banding.

I've been shortlisted to appear on an Australian television show about amateur photographers, next month. I know it's unlikely that if it went in for service that I'd have it back in time, if I made it onto the show either.

Smeggypants · 09-18-2011, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by NicoleAu

From what I can gather, it's showing in darker or shadowed areas when shooting in high ISO. I took photos down in the store srrom and the bright areas were fine, but shadowed areas showed banding. Shooting a night landscape also showed banding.

I've been shortlisted to appear on an Australian television show about amateur photographers, next month. I know it's unlikely that if it went in for service that I'd have it back in time either.

Yup that's what I get

09-18-2011, 02:36 PM	#59
NicoleAu Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 539	From what I can gather, it's showing in darker or shadowed areas when shooting in high ISO. I took photos down in the store srrom and the bright areas were fine, but shadowed areas showed banding. Shooting a night landscape also showed banding. I've been shortlisted to appear on an Australian television show about amateur photographers, next month. I know it's unlikely that if it went in for service that I'd have it back in time, if I made it onto the show either. Last edited by NicoleAu; 09-18-2011 at 03:04 PM.

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08-28-2011, 10:34 PM	#46
NicoleAu Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 539	And this is Pentax's response... I find it funny how they say they can't see anything but the pattern ( I sent them a copy of the banding above) We have reviewed your images and we cannot tell anything for sure from 2 of these photos because there is no EXIF data. We didn't notice any unusual banding artifacts in the little girl or the man close-up pictures. In the 7M file you sent we can't see anything in the way of an image except a black and white pattern. It does have some limited EXIF data indicating the shot was taken at ISO 12800, an extremely high setting. Our cameras perform very well at high ISO but at very high settings we cannot guarantee there won't be banding or other artifacts in the image. If you want to resend your images they need to be sent as original image files so the EXIF data is intact. Don't crop or edit the photos in any way. Or we need to know the particulars of the shots, i.e. ISO, White Balance, Custom Image settings, original file format (RAW, DNG or JPG).

08-28-2011, 10:42 PM	#47
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Maybe you need to mark the photos up with red arrows and circles showing what you're concerned about. I have the feeling this sort of response is a typical first answer from most service departments (blame the user).

08-29-2011, 02:21 AM	#48
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Call and talk to them. They are not very open to accepting problems. (Like JeffJS said, this is typical for many service departments, and is very true for Pentax) I was on the phone with three tech for about two to three hours explaining the problem with multiple-exposure. I actually sat on the phone as they received example files to make sure I was able to point out the problem (hand holding them like kindergarteners!!). They finally did see the problem, but it takes a lot of effort. I DO NOT like their support personnel. They are very quick to blame the user. But with that, their comments on how to send the file are valid, but I think the statement that they cannot see the banding is a cop-out. The lines are quite clear. You may have to ask if their monitor has been calibrated. :-) :-) I honestly do not believe the support techs have proper means for diagnosing issues, you will likely need to get this pushed up to a manager on duty so that he can get it in the hands of an engineer.

08-29-2011, 02:49 AM	#49
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076	Originally posted by JeffJS Maybe you need to mark the photos up with red arrows and circles showing what you're concerned about. I have the feeling this sort of response is a typical first answer from most service departments (blame the user). Yes and no. I think its only reasonable to expect original, unedited output for diagnostics. I'm surprised why would you send only edited ones. Actually i bet they'd be a lot happier to get RAW files. You can supply additional edited versions of the files where you point out the problem and make it easier to notice. But telling that they cant see the bands makes me think you'll have hard time with them. I can clearly see them on my uncalibrated, cheap, discolored LCD. Whenever i've had any warranty issues only few times it has gone the way it should be (within reasonable time-frame, cost free, without the need to argue and repeatedly being redirected between several places).

08-29-2011, 04:02 AM	#50
NicoleAu Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 539	Yeah, it's just the raw files are 19mb and up, the one of my husband was 25.6mb which is beyond even gmails limit. I really cannot understand why they can't see the banding either, it's pretty obvious to me. And I acknowledge that the 12800 is high, but 6400 shouldn't have obvious banding issues, noise yes, but not banding.

08-29-2011, 04:36 AM	#51
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	It looks to me that something is wrong with your sensor, just as the others said send them back with deailed arrows and circles of the problem area. Was your K-5 a new local cam, or did you pick up a refurbed oversea's cam?

08-29-2011, 08:51 AM	#52
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by ytterbium Yes and no. I think its only reasonable to expect original, unedited output for diagnostics. I'm surprised why would you send only edited ones. Actually i bet they'd be a lot happier to get RAW files. You can supply additional edited versions of the files where you point out the problem and make it easier to notice. RAW or JPG is irrelevant at this point. Converted from RAW with no modifications (NR, Sharpening, etc) would give them the same information. They've apparently missed seeing the problem, as Nicole posts in their response, so now it's time to point it out to them. There are places where RAW files can be uploaded for them to download if need be and if that's what they want to see (Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire) but you may need to find one that will support that big of a file (without paying money).

08-29-2011, 10:30 AM	#53
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Off Topic: You eat Marmite?!

08-29-2011, 12:28 PM	#54
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by tabl10s Off Topic: You eat Marmite?! In Soviet Queensland, Marmite eats YOU!!

09-18-2011, 04:20 AM	#55
NicoleAu Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 539	So far nothing has been resolved. Randall at Pentax seems to be ignoring both mine and the customer service reps emails. Tonight when using the camera, a thin red line has appeared down the back screen of the camera, I switched it on and off and it is still there. I am completely underwhelmed with the Pentax customer service and the 'quality' of their cameras. I am frustrated at them for pretending to not see anything wrong as well as their dealing with the issue by ignoring it.

09-18-2011, 05:27 AM	#56
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Can't you print a photo, mark it up to show the banding, and just send the camera to Pentax? Seems like you should be able to get warranty service without going through all this bullshit.

09-18-2011, 11:15 AM	#57
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by AOShep Supports my theory that the best noise control is a proper exposure. I've tried high ISO but nothing this controlled, just shots in the dark which gave me lots of noise. that's because if the scene is mostly dark the camera will try and expose that as a midtone ( almost akin to night vision ). Answer is to either underexpose when shooting, or perhaps better turn down the exposure in PP

09-18-2011, 11:19 AM	#58
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by NicoleAu This is mine at 12800 with the same treatment as Jeffs but in LR I get that kind of banding from my K-5s when shooting at 51200. Not on every shot though. I've no idea what particular conditions trigger it. I notice your use LR3. I do. maybe it's a manifestation of Lightroom's processing?

09-18-2011, 02:51 PM	#60
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by NicoleAu From what I can gather, it's showing in darker or shadowed areas when shooting in high ISO. I took photos down in the store srrom and the bright areas were fine, but shadowed areas showed banding. Shooting a night landscape also showed banding. I've been shortlisted to appear on an Australian television show about amateur photographers, next month. I know it's unlikely that if it went in for service that I'd have it back in time either. Yup that's what I get