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08-31-2011, 03:44 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Francis Quote
I've now scratched my sensor, darnit
Hi
How did you manage to do that?
I have cleaned dozens of sensors over the years and have not even come close to do that.
You say you used the sensor swab, dry or wet ? These sensors are quite tough little buggers, I am at a total loss how you managed to scratch it. If they are that easy to ruin no service center would be willing to work on them, let me assure you.

On the other hand I am not willing to accept that you actually produced a scratch but have merely left a smear behind, which is very easy to do if the speck of crap was some sort of organic matter. Under the magnifier the can look very much like a scratch!

Edit
I have removed a number of smears that presented for all the world as scratches.
First let me explain why you get smears. Smears are created when you try to shift organic dirt in a linear motion. The smear is the result solely because the crap is nothing else but a piece of organic matter that contains some moisture on its own or it has absorbed moisture from the cleaning medium during the cleaning process. And because you only put very little cleaning fluid on the swab there is just enough moisture there to partially dissolve the matter. Either way the material is soft enough to leave a trail of its matter behind, it rubs off so to speak. The surprising thing is that the majority of crap that finds itself deposited on the sensor actually is organic. If it is dry fluff it is much easier removed.

Because these smears are hard to clean off most people that have created one during the cleaning process immediately identify them as scratches.
How do you then remove them ?
Here is what I do with a 100% success rate. Get some Cleaning fluid. I use 98% pure Ethanol from the Chemist but if you feel unsure about Ethanol use the fluid that came with the kit. Now get a lintfree cotton bud and soak it well in the fluid. Get your fresh sensor swab ready and apply a small amount of fluid here also.

Now locate the smear on the sensor and with you left hand gently dab the well soaked bud over the smear and hold it there for a moment, hold the swab in your right hand in readiness to wipe the smear as soon as you have removed the cotton bud. Dabbing the smear will dissolve it in readiness for the the swab in your right hand to gently wipe it away. Discard the swab and repeat this process until everything is clean. I find soaking the smear first before wiping with the swab is the only way to tackle this. The little bit of fluid on the swab is not enough on its own to remove smears particularly if they are of a greasy nature. Working with both hands this way is important because the cleaning fluid evaporates very quickly and you dont want to give the smear time to dry out again before wiping it. Also you should not overload the full width swap with too much liquid but with the overloaded small more direct bud there is no chance to of damage by flooding the sensor.

If working with both hands is a bit challenging for you, by all means use on hand, but practice you action on a CD/DVD first, you'll find it is dead easy.


Last edited by Schraubstock; 08-31-2011 at 04:38 AM. Reason: Additional explanation
08-31-2011, 04:27 AM   #17
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@ed - I tried that first, naturally, but the rocket blower didn't blow anything off the sensor

@schraubstock - I've had years of practice and may have perfected the art of screwing up. I read the manual, watched the videos, and I can assure you I was probably never going to get rid of anything on the sensor with how lightly I waved the magic wand over the sensor compared to the video from Delkin, yet, here I am... Instructions were first wet on one end of the wand, then dry on the other side. I only went down this road because fully 50% of my photos from my holiday were F22 landscape shots with or without my wife. PP was ok to repair those spots but one of my weaknesses is "perfectionist" and so I embarked on the DIY cleaning (with proper tools) crusade. I thought if others could do it, there's no reason I couldn't.

So, I will check again tonight, maybe do another attempt, and either never use F11-22 or send in the camera for repair.

Thanks for your support
08-31-2011, 05:53 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Francis Quote
@ed - I tried that first, naturally, but the rocket blower didn't blow anything off the sensor

@schraubstock - I've had years of practice and may have perfected the art of screwing up. I read the manual, watched the videos, and I can assure you I was probably never going to get rid of anything on the sensor with how lightly I waved the magic wand over the sensor compared to the video from Delkin, yet, here I am... Instructions were first wet on one end of the wand, then dry on the other side. I only went down this road because fully 50% of my photos from my holiday were F22 landscape shots with or without my wife. PP was ok to repair those spots but one of my weaknesses is "perfectionist" and so I embarked on the DIY cleaning (with proper tools) crusade. I thought if others could do it, there's no reason I couldn't.

So, I will check again tonight, maybe do another attempt, and either never use F11-22 or send in the camera for repair.

Thanks for your support
Keep us posted
Gretings
08-31-2011, 06:50 AM   #19
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I will, thanks again. I'm not going to do anything outside of the delkin kit as I paid 150+ EUR for that kit! The two handed technique for an amateur sensor cleaner is a bit of a risk. I don't have lint-free swabs either. Personally I'll be happy to get rid of the little dust spots on the photos and that damned dot on my viewfinder. The smear/scratch thing is currently no issue to me as it does not seem to appear on images.

I must say (quick review) that the delkin sensor vac and the brush on the sensor pen do not seem to do much but rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic.

08-31-2011, 09:55 AM   #20
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I think there is a sheet of optical glass on top of the sensor, so you are not cleaning the sensor per say. I could be wrong, but on my K5 and other bodies, it seems the same way. Others who know for sure can correct this if i am wrong.
08-31-2011, 10:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by vario Quote
I think there is a sheet of optical glass on top of the sensor, so you are not cleaning the sensor per say. I could be wrong, but on my K5 and other bodies, it seems the same way. Others who know for sure can correct this if i am wrong.
This is true. You are not cleaning the sensor but the filter that goes over the sensor.

This is a stain.



For more information on dust, what it looks like, and some methods to get rid of it..

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-camera-articles/121739-those-...ml#post1259109

08-31-2011, 11:47 AM   #22
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Update: The smudge won't go away. The viewfinder spots won't go away. I've Rocket Blowered it to death. I've reported my camera as damaged and will send it to my dealer for servicing tomorrow.

I understand this could easily cost 500EUR and a few months. Really annoyed but glad I "learned" this lesson after my holiday.

Last edited by Francis; 08-31-2011 at 11:28 PM.
09-02-2011, 06:16 AM   #23
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I packed my K5 in its original box, wrapped in bubblewrap, and tearfully sent it on its journey back to my shop. Jeez I hope it doesn't take too long, and hopefully they send me a few DA Limiteds back by mistake

09-07-2011, 04:35 AM   #24
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Well, camera shop just emailed me. They have to replace nothing. They said the "scratch" was a smear of oil which surprises me, but hey, let's call that luck! 60EUR to clean though...
09-07-2011, 08:32 AM   #25
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I don't give a damn on dust specks until they become visible at f8.

But when you have to do it:
-put the camera on the tripod, nose down.
-set it for cleaning (fully charged batteries!!!)
-take off lens
-blow or use the Pentax kit.

As I said before, I use the official tool for the job.
I found that with great care, cleaning the sensor is seldom needed. It is very important to be in a confined space, and blow the mount area of the lens before swapping.

Octav
09-07-2011, 08:52 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Francis Quote
Well, camera shop just emailed me. They have to replace nothing. They said the "scratch" was a smear of oil which surprises me, but hey, let's call that luck! 60EUR to clean though...
Hi
Good to hear, and thanks for letting us know as you promised. But I must say I knew that all the time. As previously stated:

A) These little buggers are actually not easy to scratch (if cleaned with the right tools)
B) What appears to many people to be a scratch is actually a smear.
C) With my technique in an earlier post above the smear is really very easy to remove.
D) The hype over the danger and the pitfalls and the likelihood of total destruction that awaits you by cleaning your own sensor filter is massively and vastly overstated.
(And cleaning utensils manufacturers do their best to keep the fear alive, and all the fear mongering posts here aid in this outcome also)

I am truly delighted that all your fears have come to nought. And I mean it. (You have been sweating over this a little bit haven't you)
If it is that easy to make EU60.00 for 10 min. work I may have to rethink my position and perhaps start to charge people that com to me for this job.

Greetings
09-09-2011, 01:20 AM   #27
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Another update - this thread will never die for me... Got my camera back (no Limited lenses by mistake unfortunately).

Unfortunately the 60 EUR was not really well spent. First picture taken at F22 shows a speck even darker than the specks I had after my self cleaning. The viewfinder specks are more or less gone, but I still see dirt. I've complained to the shop, but don't expect much back. I'm so annoyed... my K5 is no longer virgin clean (apologies to all the virgins on the board). I'm going to work this out in my head first. How do you guys react to "dirty viewfinder" (not sensor) and "my camera's no longer perfect" situations. I can guess your cameras are probably a bit more worn than mine. I've ordered an O-ICK1 from Germany as well.

Will try sensor shake, rocket... then see what else.
09-09-2011, 04:07 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Francis Quote
"dirty viewfinder"
I'd ignore it. I have ever only used a blower on my k-x. So one reply above said "sensor stains develop..." Is this what actually happens? Is there something fast that lets go of droplets of oil or?
09-09-2011, 04:07 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Francis Quote
Another update - this thread will never die for me... Got my camera back (no Limited lenses by mistake unfortunately).

Unfortunately the 60 EUR was not really well spent. First picture taken at F22 shows a speck even darker than the specks I had after my self cleaning. The viewfinder specks are more or less gone, but I still see dirt. I've complained to the shop, but don't expect much back. I'm so annoyed... my K5 is no longer virgin clean (apologies to all the virgins on the board). I'm going to work this out in my head first. How do you guys react to "dirty viewfinder" (not sensor) and "my camera's no longer perfect" situations. I can guess your cameras are probably a bit more worn than mine. I've ordered an O-ICK1 from Germany as well.

Will try sensor shake, rocket... then see what else.
Hi
I can't understand the luck you are having. Did you pick up the cam from the shop? Was there no chance to immediately check it?
In any case I am speechless. Shame you live so far away I would clean the thing for you. As to the viewfinder, have only cleand once or twice mine. Had a bit of fluff on it and it was easily brushed off with a small supersoft brush from the local art supply shop. I must say though, I still have a few small specks on the viewfinder (actually it is on the focusing screen) but I am not bothered by it. Bear in mind that there even the smallest bit of crap will show up really well and to get it totally clean is next to impossible. So I have decided to live with it. If it gets worse, which it hasn't I will just use the brush again. Unfortunately a good quality very soft brush even in this small size will set you back some $15-25.00. Its a good investment though. I use it to brush my sensor with it also sometimes. I do not like blowers at all because the blow the dust around inside the mirror chamber, and don't believe by pointing down the cam opening will make the fluff fall out, it won't. When I brush I hold the opening down though because brushing does not create turbulence and the dirt has a fair chance to fall out.

Greetings

Edit: I have the O-ICK1 and have used it for many years, it is very good.

Last edited by Schraubstock; 09-09-2011 at 04:12 AM. Reason: more info
09-09-2011, 04:35 AM   #30
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Thanks Schraubstock - if you say the O-ICK1 is good, I'm satisfied. My bad for keeping the opening up when I changed lenses before. I do have a sensor brush as part of that Delkin kit I mentioned. I'll maybe use that with the opening down to see if the specks will brush off and out.

To be honest my luck hasn't been "so bad". The camera has no faults itself and has been very good. It is "user issue" more than anything.
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