K-5 Annoyance, wild exposures off eye

Ben78 · 09-10-2011, 03:42 PM

Came across a small problem that I think may be me not the camera....

I managed to get myself into a position for the World Rally Championships that I was able to get photos of the drivers as they stopped after a stage. The WRC official pro photographer was next to me and was using a 5D, he was pumping out the shots by holding the camera inside the car and holding the shutter down. Whenever I did the same thing I got extremely underexposed shots. Remembering back to film days I covered the viewfinder and got better exposure but still a long way from what I am used to with the K5. Now I know that I can 'fix' the majority of this in editing but prefer not to....

Can I assume that the pro was using manual settings and just using his experience to know what works best in the situation? I really should have asked him, the WRC TV commentator and photographer were nice guys but everything was happening so fast that the opportunity wasn't there to talk cameras! One thing he did say though was 'If you have Canon, get one of these' he was referring to the tiny flash on his camera, I think it might be a 270EX but I can't be sure. EF500 was useless as I was too close and it wasn't lighting up the inside of the car.

Any ideas on what I can do to improve my off eye shooting skills?

Edit, pics with DA16-45

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**rparmar** · 09-10-2011, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Ben78

The WRC official pro photographer was next to me and was using a 5D, he was pumping out the shots by holding the camera inside the car and holding the shutter down. Whenever I did the same thing I got extremely underexposed shots

How do you know he didn't get underexposed shots as well?

Originally posted by Ben78

Remembering back to film days I covered the viewfinder and got better exposure but still a long way from what I am used to with the K5.

It can become an issue for longer exposures. It would not be a significant factor for your shots.

Originally posted by Ben78

Now I know that I can 'fix' the majority of this in editing but prefer not to....

Why? Learning how best to "develop" your negatives is half the fun/work of using a camera. This is just as true for digital as it was for film.

What you could have done is take a spot exposure off the face, set these same values with the camera on "M" and then shoot bracketed.

**rparmar** · 09-10-2011, 04:41 PM

P.S. Though shot three is blurry from movement there's nothing much wrong with shot one, IMO.

George Lama · 09-11-2011, 10:43 AM

Beyond the fact that the Canon 5D does not have in-body flash, considering the small size of the 270EX, it's wouldn't be all that different from using the in-body flash on the K5 (unless you're using a ultra wide angle lens). I'd just dial down the flash power as needed.

That said, you could always get this to not kill your camera battery as quickly.
Amazon.com: Pentax AF-200FG Electronic Flash with Case: Camera & Photo

Regardless, I would also use manual settings, including center point AF. Can't afford to let the camera pick and chose for you when you have seconds to capture a few shots. Just remember inside the car is decidedly darker than outside.

JinDesu · 09-11-2011, 10:46 AM

The second one looked pretty good in terms of exposure. What metering mode did you use? What shooting settings?

RioRico · 09-11-2011, 12:10 PM

The ambient light level looks pretty consistent inside each vehicle in terms of illuminating skin. What I did in similar circumstances with center-weighted film cameras: Take a reading off my hand in shadow, and use that exposure for all shots with consistent light. As suggested, with digital it's easy to bracket, based on such a 'base' manual reading.

With auto-metering: If you know that your subjects will be centered in the frame, you could set metering and AF to center or spot -- but bracket anyway. If you know that the subjects will be back-lit (glare from the window behind them) then set +1 EV -- and bracket anyway. If you spray-and-pray, BRACKET!! Bracketing can save your butt.

bymy141 · 09-11-2011, 02:00 PM

If you expect such a thing; add +1.5 Ev, always shoot RAW, compensate later in post.

Cheers, Bert

RonHendriks1966 · 09-11-2011, 02:17 PM

Well who would want to make such pictures. So it is probably somewhere deep down in my computer.

From a totaly different shoot, since there was light enough and cabriolets. The idea is the same you want a fast taken picture and want it sharp with frozen pictures in the flash. I used internal flash for this and I think I put it on -1 in power on the flash. This gives a very nice light that is acceptable for the space to work with.

Taken with K-5 and DA 21mm with internal flash inside the car on the dashboard.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20195454/_K5E8270forum.jpg

It works the same in your situation, only less light so still a small DOF.

Ben78 · 09-12-2011, 01:05 AM

Ok, I just had a look, the Petter Solberg pic was f4.5 1/100s 1000iso +1.3ev

This pic of Merksteijn was f4 1/100s 800iso 0ev

There was constant cloud cover and light rain the whole morning. I consider this exposure as perfect, The Solberg one is way off...

RonHendriks1966 · 09-12-2011, 01:36 AM

This picture is made with flash and the canon or is this yours?

With flash you freeze the picture at a much lower time then your shutter is.

The last one is a good one!

simico · 09-12-2011, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by rparmar

It can become an issue for longer exposures. It would not be a significant factor for your shots.

It can be an issue for any shot. Metering sensors are located in the prism house, therefore light entering the prism from the viewfinder fouls the metering sensor and results in underexposed shots in automatic exposure modes.

The issue for longer exposures is totally different: in that case light leaking through the viewfinder and prism house can reach the sensor and be recorded on the captured image.

Ben78 · 09-12-2011, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

This picture is made with flash and the canon or is this yours?

With flash you freeze the picture at a much lower time then your shutter is.

The last one is a good one!

The 'perfect' exposure pic is mine from K5 and no flash at all.and I know I didn't just catch the flash of the canon user as I have 5 pics from the continuous shutter in a row with the same exposure level and all pics are the same, perfect exposure.

Here is another from that particular burst

Name: PVanMerksteijnUlong102.jpg
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Name: PVanMerksteijnUlong102.jpg
Views: 242
Size: 53.9 KB

Ben78 · 09-12-2011, 04:13 AM

Actually, now that I look at them both on the same page I think maybe I did catch the flash in the first pic...

09-10-2011, 03:42 PM	#1
Ben78 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tamworth, NSW Posts: 158	K-5 Annoyance, wild exposures off eye Came across a small problem that I think may be me not the camera.... I managed to get myself into a position for the World Rally Championships that I was able to get photos of the drivers as they stopped after a stage. The WRC official pro photographer was next to me and was using a 5D, he was pumping out the shots by holding the camera inside the car and holding the shutter down. Whenever I did the same thing I got extremely underexposed shots. Remembering back to film days I covered the viewfinder and got better exposure but still a long way from what I am used to with the K5. Now I know that I can 'fix' the majority of this in editing but prefer not to.... Can I assume that the pro was using manual settings and just using his experience to know what works best in the situation? I really should have asked him, the WRC TV commentator and photographer were nice guys but everything was happening so fast that the opportunity wasn't there to talk cameras! One thing he did say though was 'If you have Canon, get one of these' he was referring to the tiny flash on his camera, I think it might be a 270EX but I can't be sure. EF500 was useless as I was too close and it wasn't lighting up the inside of the car. Any ideas on what I can do to improve my off eye shooting skills? Edit, pics with DA16-45

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09-10-2011, 04:39 PM	#2
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by Ben78 The WRC official pro photographer was next to me and was using a 5D, he was pumping out the shots by holding the camera inside the car and holding the shutter down. Whenever I did the same thing I got extremely underexposed shots How do you know he didn't get underexposed shots as well? Originally posted by Ben78 Remembering back to film days I covered the viewfinder and got better exposure but still a long way from what I am used to with the K5. It can become an issue for longer exposures. It would not be a significant factor for your shots. Originally posted by Ben78 Now I know that I can 'fix' the majority of this in editing but prefer not to.... Why? Learning how best to "develop" your negatives is half the fun/work of using a camera. This is just as true for digital as it was for film. What you could have done is take a spot exposure off the face, set these same values with the camera on "M" and then shoot bracketed.

09-10-2011, 04:41 PM	#3
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	P.S. Though shot three is blurry from movement there's nothing much wrong with shot one, IMO.

09-11-2011, 10:43 AM	#4
George Lama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133	Beyond the fact that the Canon 5D does not have in-body flash, considering the small size of the 270EX, it's wouldn't be all that different from using the in-body flash on the K5 (unless you're using a ultra wide angle lens). I'd just dial down the flash power as needed. That said, you could always get this to not kill your camera battery as quickly. Amazon.com: Pentax AF-200FG Electronic Flash with Case: Camera & Photo Regardless, I would also use manual settings, including center point AF. Can't afford to let the camera pick and chose for you when you have seconds to capture a few shots. Just remember inside the car is decidedly darker than outside.

09-11-2011, 10:46 AM	#5
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	The second one looked pretty good in terms of exposure. What metering mode did you use? What shooting settings?

09-11-2011, 12:10 PM	#6
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	The ambient light level looks pretty consistent inside each vehicle in terms of illuminating skin. What I did in similar circumstances with center-weighted film cameras: Take a reading off my hand in shadow, and use that exposure for all shots with consistent light. As suggested, with digital it's easy to bracket, based on such a 'base' manual reading. With auto-metering: If you know that your subjects will be centered in the frame, you could set metering and AF to center or spot -- but bracket anyway. If you know that the subjects will be back-lit (glare from the window behind them) then set +1 EV -- and bracket anyway. If you spray-and-pray, BRACKET!! Bracketing can save your butt.

09-11-2011, 02:00 PM	#7
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	If you expect such a thing; add +1.5 Ev, always shoot RAW, compensate later in post. Cheers, Bert

09-11-2011, 02:17 PM	#8
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well who would want to make such pictures. So it is probably somewhere deep down in my computer. From a totaly different shoot, since there was light enough and cabriolets. The idea is the same you want a fast taken picture and want it sharp with frozen pictures in the flash. I used internal flash for this and I think I put it on -1 in power on the flash. This gives a very nice light that is acceptable for the space to work with. Taken with K-5 and DA 21mm with internal flash inside the car on the dashboard. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20195454/_K5E8270forum.jpg It works the same in your situation, only less light so still a small DOF.

09-12-2011, 01:05 AM	#9
Ben78 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tamworth, NSW Posts: 158 Original Poster	Ok, I just had a look, the Petter Solberg pic was f4.5 1/100s 1000iso +1.3ev This pic of Merksteijn was f4 1/100s 800iso 0ev There was constant cloud cover and light rain the whole morning. I consider this exposure as perfect, The Solberg one is way off...

09-12-2011, 01:36 AM	#10
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	This picture is made with flash and the canon or is this yours? With flash you freeze the picture at a much lower time then your shutter is. The last one is a good one!

09-12-2011, 02:09 AM	#11
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	Originally posted by rparmar It can become an issue for longer exposures. It would not be a significant factor for your shots. It can be an issue for any shot. Metering sensors are located in the prism house, therefore light entering the prism from the viewfinder fouls the metering sensor and results in underexposed shots in automatic exposure modes. The issue for longer exposures is totally different: in that case light leaking through the viewfinder and prism house can reach the sensor and be recorded on the captured image.

09-12-2011, 04:11 AM	#12
Ben78 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tamworth, NSW Posts: 158 Original Poster	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 This picture is made with flash and the canon or is this yours? With flash you freeze the picture at a much lower time then your shutter is. The last one is a good one! The 'perfect' exposure pic is mine from K5 and no flash at all.and I know I didn't just catch the flash of the canon user as I have 5 pics from the continuous shutter in a row with the same exposure level and all pics are the same, perfect exposure. Here is another from that particular burst

09-12-2011, 04:13 AM	#13
Ben78 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tamworth, NSW Posts: 158 Original Poster	Actually, now that I look at them both on the same page I think maybe I did catch the flash in the first pic...