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09-11-2011, 03:31 PM   #1
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About ready to throw the towel in on my K-5

In May I had a lot of problems with my K-5 shutting itself off by itself and mirror flopping which resulted in the circuit board getting fried. Took CRIS 6 weeks to repair my camera and get it back to me. I have had it back for just about a month and have had nothing but problems since!

My photos even at 100 iso have visible noise on every picture, and I would say 1 out of 4 photos is in focus! I have checked to make sure that my af is on, and all of the other settings. I am dreading sending my camera back to CRIS, as I don't even want to guess how long it will take to get back once again! I can only imagine what they messed up with the sensor when putting my camera back together again

And for the icing on the cake, my mirror started to flop again today during the middle of a session.

09-11-2011, 03:38 PM   #2
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If I were you I'd be demanding a new camera not just a patch up job. I'm sure Consumer Affairs or whatever the Government branch is called there will back you up.
09-11-2011, 03:45 PM   #3
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Oh i've demaded a new camera, and have gone up the supervisor ladder with Pentax, and have gotten no where other than the line of "if we can repair it there is no need for a camera replacement" bleh
09-11-2011, 04:06 PM   #4
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Keep pushing, these toys aren't cheap and you deserve to get out of the camera what it can truly offer. Good luck.

09-11-2011, 04:26 PM   #5
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Looking back at your history of problems, I would have to say there is a time to throw in the towel if you can't get a new camera. A refund would be in order I would think......for me it would just be a phone call away to my CC, and the charge would be removed. Life is too short to suffer needlessly. It is a shame, because for those of us without difficulty, the K5 is a magical tool.


Good Luck in whatever you do.
Regards!
09-11-2011, 04:34 PM   #6
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What a damned shame. That's the equivalent of two defective cameras in a row, if the mirror flopping has reappeared. You deserve your money back.
09-11-2011, 05:21 PM   #7
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I feel your pain. I am on my third body and so far only the lens button has fallen off this one (cured with super glue). But it feels worth it now that firmware updates and body swapping cured everything else. Would you please link to a full size pic with EXIF shot at iso100 that is full of noise? Its possible someone will see something they are familiar with that might help you.

Good luck from here on....
09-11-2011, 05:54 PM   #8
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if they won't replace it demand your money back as it's not fit for purpose. tehn go and buy one from a decent retailer :0

09-11-2011, 05:56 PM   #9
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You should be able to enjoy this kind of clarity at ISO 12,800.......it is some of that joy I talk about, even though this is just a quick snap, it shows the potential. That is why it is a shame that not everyone is enjoying this benefit.

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09-11-2011, 06:55 PM   #10
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As smeggy said, there is a Warranty of Merchantability and it part of the Uniform Commercial Code that is applicable in all states (even in Vermont).
2-314. Implied Warranty: Merchantability; Usage of Trade.

(1) Unless excluded or modified (Section 2-316), a warranty that the goods shall be merchantable is implied in a contract for their sale if the seller is a merchant with respect to goods of that kind. Under this section the serving for value of food or drink to be consumed either on the premises or elsewhere is a sale.

(2) Goods to be merchantable must be at least such as
  • (a) pass without objection in the trade under the contract description; and
  • (b) in the case of fungible goods, are of fair average quality within the description; and
  • (c) are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used; and
  • (d) run, within the variations permitted by the agreement, of even kind, quality and quantity within each unit and among all units involved; and
  • (e) are adequately contained, packaged, and labeled as the agreement may require; and
  • (f) conform to the promise or affirmations of fact made on the container or label if any.
(3) Unless excluded or modified (Section 2-316) other implied warranties may arise from course of dealing or usage of trade.

Just arrange the return to where you purchased it from, stating that, "It does not work. They - Pentax, have not been able to make it work". I want a refund. If you do not process a refund, I will cancel and dispute payment with my credit card.

I am not a lawyer or an attorney. I am just an engineer.


Last edited by interested_observer; 09-11-2011 at 07:03 PM.
09-11-2011, 07:15 PM   #11
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I sent mine in a second time recently too... It took around two months for their first attempt at fixing it. It started having the mirror problem about a week after getting it back. Let me know if you manage to get a replacement and how you did it.
09-11-2011, 07:30 PM   #12
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Just thinking out aloud but why is it it there seems to be a disproportionate number of issues from US posters, and new users at that? Is it because of the very easy return policy also means that the retailers will just ship to the next buyer those problematic cameras circulating around. In the past I have on two occasions received lenses from US online sellers that were supposed to be new but were in fact not. Over where I am, we have a large concentration of K-5 users, a next to zero return policy among our brick and mortar camera shops and we don't even see the kind of issues that seems widespread in the US. My own local repair service relating to the stain issue was resolved within 2 weeks back in Dec last year and my K-5 has been flawless ever since.
09-11-2011, 07:33 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Just thinking out aloud but why is it it there seems to be a disproportionate number of issues from US posters, and new users at that? Is it because of the very easy return policy also means that the retailers will just ship to the next buyer those problematic cameras circulating around. In the past I have on two occasions received lenses from US online sellers that were supposed to be new but were in fact not. Over where I am, we have a large concentration of K-5 users, a next to zero return policy among our brick and mortar camera shops and we don't even see the kind of issues that seems widespread in the US.
At least in my case the camera was from a small local camera shop.
09-11-2011, 08:46 PM   #14
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Admittedly, I am sitting here in the "peanut gallery", I do not have a K5 - yet. However I am looking at picking one up probably by the end of the year. I have a rather large investment in Pentax glass - so to my way of thinking I have no real alternative to the K5 other than waiting for another product cycle - the K3 and make a decision.

Regardless, when one receives a new K5 camera and something of substance goes wrong, I am now of the opinion that it should go directly back to the store - given the recent history here. Yes, I understand the car analogy very well with the repair cycle. However, in this case - the retailer has a much better position with Pentax than an ordinary user. The Internet and boards such as this have provided to be a great equalizer in terms of getting information out to us - the users, but it comes down to returns - that Pentax will take notice of. The retailer returns the defective unit back to Pentax who appears to return them to Japan. Otherwise, we are stuck in the repair cycle with CRIS/Pentax - where by we are just eating up our one year warranty - then, we are somewhat stuck.

What I am learning from all of this is (specifically for the K5 and maybe the K3):
  1. Don't be an early adopter. This is a tried and true position in the IT community. Wait 6 months and let all the early adopters debug the system. If everyone were to do this, it would devastate the new product introduction. Pentax - you have a problem that needs attention. NOW!
  2. Only order from retailers with good return policies, and always charge to a credit card. In that folks here are on the second and third K5 camera bodies. I am even considering ordering from B&H, and if the unit goes sour, return it for a refund and then order from Adorama. If that goes toes up (TU), return it for a refund and then order from Beach, .... etc. (rinse and recycle)....
Why would I do this? Just for self protection, and to have a true 1 year warranty on the camera body that finally works, rather than burn up my warranty on returns and repairs. Yes, there is the 2 year extension warranty for $20, that I will most certainly get - but that is not the point here. However, if you do not return the defective unit to the retailer in some reasonable period of time asking for a refund, then you are forever more stuck in the apparently never ending repair cycle/re-cycle. Thus, it appears that you need to make up your mind and take a position somewhat early, or possibly run the chance of regretting it later on. Right now Pentax is essentially using the end user's end warranty as a beta test center - repair, and its not even a timely repair. Why 3 to 6 weeks - apparently there are not parts on hand so that the guts of the camera can be replaced in a timely manner.

Some how, Pentax Japan needs to understand that they have a systemic problem in terms of their 1) design; 2) component selection; and/or 3) manufacturing quality control with the K5 body. I do think that the problems are in a minority of the units, as we only hear about the problems and not the units that are problem free. The flashing red light here is the numerical quantity of these minority units, that are reported here on the forum. However, I as a potential user, have not the foggiest idea as to what my "chances" are of getting a lemon - 1:100 or 1:1000 or 1:whatever. The only thing that matters to me is - if my unit works or not. That is a 0 or a 1- binary. If I have a 0 - I am going to be pretty unhappy.

I know that the units are a complex portable electro-mechanical optical electronic battery powered piece of wizardry, built for an affordable price. However, if now a year after its introduction, and I sitting with a clunker of a brick around my neck - I am not going to be too terribly pleased with the situation.

I do not want Pentax to go out of business, I want them to recognize and fix their problems as fast as possible, so as to limit their losses, thereby being able to stay in business. I want to buy more Pentax camera bodies in the future, so Yes - I do want them to continue to be around - producing quality products. If they get stuck with the label of producing crap, then my already sunk costs - my current equipment investment worth goes into the toilet. So, they need to protect their reputation and be very proactive in problem mitigation. They need to get out in front of these problems and put them to bed as quickly as possible.

Quickly as possible is the name of the game going into this next K3 product cycle. Pentax needs to determine very quickly what has gone wrong with the production/manufacturing aspect of the K5 so that its not repeated with the K3. The K5 is a full featured camera with exceptional capabilities. The problem is with the problem onion. No faster than they solve one problem - another crops up (stains, front focusing with Tungsten light, now mirror flops and LV lockups). If Pentax has two bodies in a row that this happens to, then it goes from bad to worse. There are a lot of problem free K5s out there - unfortunately, there are also a lot of reports of K5 bodies with problems. This has to get sorted out and quickly. It looks like the root of the problems has not been determined as of yet. Then all of this just feeds back into the repair of the product. Not good is an understatement.

Also, Ned - if this gets to you - an open letter to the Pentax Forum community addressing this may be a good first step. We buy your products, we use your products, we like your products, we want you to continue to be successful, however ....

I do have a fair investment in Pentax bodies and lenses. Yes, I am concerned.
  • K20D, DA 10-17FE, DA 12-24, DA 16-45, DA 55-300, FA 31 Ltd, K 28 Shift,
  • Contax Carl Zeiss 28mm f2.8 Distagon T*, 85mm f2.8 Sonnar T* (modified to the K mount)
  • K100D, DA 18-55, DA 50-200, A 50/1.7, Tokina 2x
  • Spotmatic IIa, SMC Tak 55/f1.8, Auto Tak 85/f1.8
  • note - all the bodies purchased new - going back to 1970
So, now I am done with my rant, and I put my asbestos Kevlar underwear on, and have taken a shower of flame retardant. Now waiting for the incoming.


Last edited by interested_observer; 09-11-2011 at 11:05 PM.
09-11-2011, 09:02 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Admittedly, I am sitting here in the "peanut gallery", I do not have a K5 - yet. However I am looking at picking one up probably by the end of the year. I have a rather large investment in Pentax glass - so to my way of thinking I have no real alternative to the K5 other than waiting for another product cycle - the K3 and make a decision.


What I am learning from all of this is (specifically for the K5 and maybe the K3):
  1. Don't be an early adopter. This is a tried and true position in the IT community. Wait 6 months and let all the early adopters debug the system. If everyone were to do this, it would devastate the new product introduction. Pentax - you have a problem that needs attention. NOW!

Yeah. I think the thing is, it can't be your only camera. It's a camera that needs to be backed up.
Interestingly, I was a very early adapter, and my K5 has been flawless.
But I don't necessarily trust it to stay that way anymore.
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