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09-25-2011, 09:14 PM   #31
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This differs from the Nikon D7000 issues such as Back Focus, Matrix Metering, Vertical Lines appearing in images, Hot Pixels, Menu/Play buttons ceasing to work, Mode dials falling off and SD Cards that just wont read in the camera how ?

A handy google search to compare for you:

+Nikon +D7000 +problem +[replace|repair]
About 1,650,000 results (0.23 seconds)

+Pentax +[K-5|K5] +problem +[replace|repair]
About 233,000 results (0.27 seconds)


1.65 Million matches vs 233k....

09-25-2011, 09:22 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
This differs from the Nikon D7000 issues such as Back Focus, Matrix Metering, Vertical Lines appearing in images, Hot Pixels, Menu/Play buttons ceasing to work, Mode dials falling off and SD Cards that just wont read in the camera how ? A handy google search to compare for you: +Nikon +D7000 +problem +[replace|repair] About 1,650,000 results (0.23 seconds) +Pentax +[K-5|K5] +problem +[replace|repair] About 233,000 results (0.27 seconds) 1.65 Million matches vs 233k....
Nikon has 12% of the market compared to Pentax's 1.5%.
Lets see, if Pentax sold as many cameras as Nikon, the K5 would have 1864000, or roughly 13% more problems, if all we are going to do is quote numbers from a web search.
Nikon's failure vindicates Pentax for having a worse one?
This is a good thing to you?
09-25-2011, 10:17 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Nikon has 12% of the market compared to Pentax's 1.5%.
Lets see, if Pentax sold as many cameras as Nikon, the K5 would have 1864000, or roughly 13% more problems, if all we are going to do is quote numbers from a web search.
Nikon's failure vindicates Pentax for having a worse one?
This is a good thing to you?
Not at all - just providing some contrast to your claims that "no other camera has had the multitude of issues the K-5 has" (paraphrased).

Even extrapolated as you did - the D7000 would appear to have more problems, over more users, than the K-5.

Thats all I'm saying. Continue to dislike the K-5 by all means - I'm not trying to convince you otherwise... But lets all not throw hyperbole around ... because your statement would appear fallacious based on empirical evidence... and I haven't even touched the Canon MkIII

My example used just one model from one other manufacturer.... Been following the Sony A77 issues ? 60% of Korean stock has supposedly got an issue....

All this does is show *everyone* is having *lots* of problems due to the rampant race to stick features and megapixels into ever shrinking bodies.... This is what happens when you want "bleeding edge" technology at a consumer level... stuff breaks. Perhaps I am far more agnostic about this aspect having worked in an arena that deals with this daily for the last 20 years... I kind of expect anything at the forefront technologically to be riddled with issues.. the key for me is.. how they are worked through and resolved....
09-25-2011, 11:21 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
not at all - just providing some contrast to your claims that "no other camera has had the multitude of issues the k-5 has" (paraphrased).

Even extrapolated as you did - the d7000 would appear to have more problems, over more users, than the k-5.

Thats all i'm saying. Continue to dislike the k-5 by all means - i'm not trying to convince you otherwise... But lets all not throw hyperbole around ... Because your statement would appear fallacious based on empirical evidence... And i haven't even touched the canon mkiii

My example used just one model from one other manufacturer.... Been following the sony a77 issues ? 60% of korean stock has supposedly got an issue....

all this does is show *everyone* is having *lots* of problems due to the rampant race to stick features and megapixels into ever shrinking bodies.... This is what happens when you want "bleeding edge" technology at a consumer level... Stuff breaks. Perhaps i am far more agnostic about this aspect having worked in an arena that deals with this daily for the last 20 years... I kind of expect anything at the forefront technologically to be riddled with issues.. The key for me is.. How they are worked through and resolved....
At last, somebody is awake!

09-26-2011, 06:49 AM   #35
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My God! What a stampede! Sorry about causing it. I just intended to bring to everyone's attention that a major problem hadn't been solved by 3/2011, despite Pentax proposing otherwise. Still, for the vast majority of Pentaxians (dislike this word - not the brand, but the ideology involved) that issue will - hopefully - never arise.

When I got the K-5 in April I did the "obligatory" tests (not to mention the real ones): FF/BF >>> none, stain >>> none.

So, until September I was very pleased with the camera which, of course, IS very good (far better than my photographic skills).

BUT, c'mon: it's still only a bloody camera, nothing to get mad about, in either sense.

AND (if this is of any interest) I will stick to Pentax (btw: giving Canikon a go and selling my gear would burn loads of cash and wouldn't make sense at all).

@ Rupert (What are those little animals? Adorable!)

They are Rock Hyraxes and one of their closest relatives is (believe it or not) the elephant. I took that picture at the Cape of Good Hope (SA) with my (now sold) K-20.

So, Otis always keep this in mind: you're being watched
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09-26-2011, 07:26 AM   #36
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Those are so neat! Thanks for posting! Never seen those before. Otis is making his usual offer for animals he wants....like we don't already have too many around here.......if you can send him one, he will send you a box of Squirrels ( no grenades!) , two Raccoons, and a baby Possum.
Regards!
09-26-2011, 09:06 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
Not at all - just providing some contrast to your claims that "no other camera has had the multitude of issues the K-5 has" (paraphrased).

Even extrapolated as you did - the D7000 would appear to have more problems, over more users, than the K-5.

Thats all I'm saying. Continue to dislike the K-5 by all means - I'm not trying to convince you otherwise... But lets all not throw hyperbole around ... because your statement would appear fallacious based on empirical evidence... and I haven't even touched the Canon MkIII

My example used just one model from one other manufacturer.... Been following the Sony A77 issues ? 60% of Korean stock has supposedly got an issue....

All this does is show *everyone* is having *lots* of problems due to the rampant race to stick features and megapixels into ever shrinking bodies.... This is what happens when you want "bleeding edge" technology at a consumer level... stuff breaks. Perhaps I am far more agnostic about this aspect having worked in an arena that deals with this daily for the last 20 years... I kind of expect anything at the forefront technologically to be riddled with issues.. the key for me is.. how they are worked through and resolved....
Adr1an,
thank you, really appreciate your insight into current manufacturing problems. The old manufacturing strategy, perhaps first used by Ford was to co-locate management and manufacturing plants so that there was instant communication and resolution of problems. But corporations have learned to defeat labor unions by moving plants to the lowest labor markets, effectively forcing each country's labor to compete against the lowest labor rates in the world. While driving down the product cost, this stresses quality control and problem resolution, for all manufacturers. Pentax having its headquarters in Japan, body mfr in the Phillipines, lenses in Viet Nam, in some respect, this helped reduce the impact of the recent Tsunami on Pentax operations.

I've wondered whether some of the common problems between the D7000 and the K5 are inherent weaknesses of the Sony exmor 16 megapixel sensor. On one hand, its got brilliant high iso performance, But on the other hand, its got these AF problems (both Nikon and Pentax, although sometimes its FF and sometimes its BF with different mfr) and these oil/solvent sensor symptoms(string of pearls). Some problems are no doubt the camera mfr, i.e. buttons falling off, but other problems maybe related to the sensor - i don't know but it seems suspicious.

The Korean launch of the A77, perhaps, doesn't bode well for Nikon and Pentax use of that sensor. I wonder how well Sony Sensor manufacturing Division (which is separate from their camera manufacturing) is sharing sensor problems with their corporate customers, i.e. Nikon and Pentax. On the other hand, it may not be the sensor at all, it may be these global manufacturing QC problems of both Nikon and Pentax - i have no idea but its fun to speculate.

Last edited by philbaum; 09-26-2011 at 09:14 AM.
09-26-2011, 09:17 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Nikon has 12% of the market compared to Pentax's 1.5%.
Lets see, if Pentax sold as many cameras as Nikon, the K5 would have 1864000, or roughly 13% more problems, if all we are going to do is quote numbers from a web search.
Nikon's failure vindicates Pentax for having a worse one?
This is a good thing to you?
Does Nikon have 12% market share of all digital cameras, or 12% market share of just DSLR's? Same with Pentax - 1.5% of all digital cameras, or just 1.5% of DSLR's?

09-26-2011, 03:08 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote

All this does is show *everyone* is having *lots* of problems due to the rampant race to stick features and megapixels into ever shrinking bodies.... This is what happens when you want "bleeding edge" technology at a consumer level... stuff breaks. Perhaps I am far more agnostic about this aspect having worked in an arena that deals with this daily for the last 20 years... I kind of expect anything at the forefront technologically to be riddled with issues.. the key for me is.. how they are worked through and resolved....
I stand corrected. I didn't realize that things like buttons that will stay on the camera and dials that will work was still considered bleeding edge technology.
I'll go back to being the K5 fanboy that I was a month or so ago, and will go back to telling people that having such things as their lens release button falling off is the result of the bleeding edge technology that is going into producing something that has been manufactured for the past few decades.
10-20-2011, 06:53 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by adr1an Quote
A handy google search to compare for you: +Nikon +D7000 +problem +[replace|repair] About 1,650,000 results (0.23 seconds) +Pentax +[K-5|K5] +problem +[replace|repair] About 233,000 results (0.27 seconds)
Constrain the search to the period from August 1, 2011 to today, and the results are very different:

Pentax [K-5|K5] problem [replace|repair] ---- 83,300 results
Nikon D7000 problem [replace|repair] ---- 137,000 results

Do you really think your Google search makes Pentax look good? I don't. It looks to me as if Nikon may at the least be better at fixing such problems as they've had.
10-21-2011, 09:00 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
Constrain the search to the period from August 1, 2011 to today, and the results are very different:

Pentax [K-5|K5] problem [replace|repair] ---- 83,300 results
Nikon D7000 problem [replace|repair] ---- 137,000 results

Do you really think your Google search makes Pentax look good? I don't. It looks to me as if Nikon may at the least be better at fixing such problems as they've had.
Considering the difference in market share between the two companies, Pentax is looking really bad in your search as well. Something that neither of your searches comments on is the number of DIFFERENT problems.
IE: does the D7K have over a dozen ways to stop working (which is the K5's real problem), or is it the same one or two issues that are being searched for and found by google?
10-21-2011, 04:10 PM   #42
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I don't care much one way or the other about the statistics. Stats don't comfort those with problems, either Nikon or Pentax users. But let's be real about the market share issue: The camparison is about one model of each maker: how many models are in Nikon's 12% and how many in Pentax's 1.5%? If you have to compare, the only comparison worth looking at is the number of each particular model produced. The next issue to be addressed is how many of the hits are multiple complaints: do unhappy Pentax users post their complaints multiple times at a greater rate than unhappy Nikon users? Does the search engine count as hits posts that are in fact not complaints but soothing words of encouragement or comfort to those who have complained? Does the search engine count as hits the posts of those who have never even held one of the cameras but have made a post making a gratuitous comment about it, or who are seeking assurance before taking the plunge?
My apologies to the OP, Wheatfield and everyone else, but the stats mean absolutely nothing.
10-21-2011, 05:42 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by rod_grant Quote
I don't care much one way or the other about the statistics. Stats don't comfort those with problems, either Nikon or Pentax users. But let's be real about the market share issue: The camparison is about one model of each maker: how many models are in Nikon's 12% and how many in Pentax's 1.5%? If you have to compare, the only comparison worth looking at is the number of each particular model produced. The next issue to be addressed is how many of the hits are multiple complaints: do unhappy Pentax users post their complaints multiple times at a greater rate than unhappy Nikon users? Does the search engine count as hits posts that are in fact not complaints but soothing words of encouragement or comfort to those who have complained? Does the search engine count as hits the posts of those who have never even held one of the cameras but have made a post making a gratuitous comment about it, or who are seeking assurance before taking the plunge?
My apologies to the OP, Wheatfield and everyone else, but the stats mean absolutely nothing.
Thanks Rod!

The OP seems to be happy and that's all that counts.
10-21-2011, 06:11 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Pentax is looking really bad in your search as well.
That was precisely my point.

Or rather, that the original google search, if it meant anything, didn't establish what the first searcher thought it did.
10-27-2011, 06:23 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raybo Quote
Thanks Rod!

The OP seems to be happy and that's all that counts.
Well, not quite...

About 2 weeks ago I got my replacement which I checked out during a short trip to London (btw great weather & very nice shooting conditions).

Regarding the 'string of pearls' and FF it seems alright, BUT during that trip my new (? 7/2011) just froze 3x, which required removing the grip and the batteries.

And again, there's a stain on the sensor (visible at f11 or smaller), no string, but one that can be done with by wet cleaning - still a nuisance.

So, I'll send it back again (and again and again...)

harpoh
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