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10-20-2011, 06:30 AM   #16
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The replacement camera had 4 times the number not 10000, it had 10000 more images not times. The large point missed by most is that Pentax could not replicate the problem. I remember having a problem with a car (not under warranty) but every time I took it in to shop the problem would not crop up. Finally one time when I picked it up the problem flared up in the parking lot and the mechanics were thrilled because now they would be able to find it. Pentax could not determine what caused the problem or even if the problem was real. No offence to the OP but they do not know each and every customer. So Pentax's options were to send him a brand new camera to replace what could be a perfectly working one, send the original one back to him to use until the problem did reoccur or send him a demo replacement one. It is easy to say that they could have sent him one with a similiar shutter count but what if they would have had to wait months for one to be available?

If you send the replacement one back to Pentax they could simply send you yours back as it sounds like they could find no fault.

10-20-2011, 06:51 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The one he sent in was broken, the one they sent back isn't broken.
By definition, the replacement is in better condition than the old one.
That's a pretty silly attitude. We're talking about real life here, not some legal TV show. By your logic they could send back a non-functioning camera with 1 shutter actuation, and that would discharge their obligations under the warranty agreement. Is that what you're saying?
10-20-2011, 06:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
The replacement camera had 4 times the number not 10000, it had 10000 more images not times. The large point missed by most is that Pentax could not replicate the problem. I remember having a problem with a car (not under warranty) but every time I took it in to shop the problem would not crop up. Finally one time when I picked it up the problem flared up in the parking lot and the mechanics were thrilled because now they would be able to find it. Pentax could not determine what caused the problem or even if the problem was real. No offence to the OP but they do not know each and every customer. So Pentax's options were to send him a brand new camera to replace what could be a perfectly working one, send the original one back to him to use until the problem did reoccur or send him a demo replacement one. It is easy to say that they could have sent him one with a similiar shutter count but what if they would have had to wait months for one to be available?

If you send the replacement one back to Pentax they could simply send you yours back as it sounds like they could find no fault.
That's what I would ask them to do if they can not find any problem; it may be just a glitch (which may or may not happen again). Take your old one back and enjoy it first.... until the problem appears again (if it ever does).
10-20-2011, 06:56 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
That's a pretty silly attitude. We're talking about real life here, not some legal TV show. By your logic they could send back a non-functioning camera with 1 shutter actuation, and that would discharge their obligations under the warranty agreement. Is that what you're saying?
But if you recall, the OP said that Pentax could not replicate the problem. Given that piece of information, they could have simply sent back his original camera as they could find nothing wrong with it.

10-20-2011, 07:00 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
But if you recall, the OP said that Pentax could not replicate the problem. Given that piece of information, they could have simply sent back his original camera as they could find nothing wrong with it.
The OP hasnt specified exactly what they said when replacing it, but if they've agreed to replace it they must accept that there is something wrong with the camera.
10-20-2011, 07:12 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
That's a pretty silly attitude. We're talking about real life here, not some legal TV show. By your logic they could send back a non-functioning camera with 1 shutter actuation, and that would discharge their obligations under the warranty agreement. Is that what you're saying?
That is not what he is saying.
10-20-2011, 07:15 AM   #22
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How did you confirm the number of actuations? From the image number (which can be incorrect due to different reasons) or from the actual EXIF information?
10-20-2011, 07:15 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
That's a pretty silly attitude. We're talking about real life here, not some legal TV show. By your logic they could send back a non-functioning camera with 1 shutter actuation, and that would discharge their obligations under the warranty agreement. Is that what you're saying?
Actually, that is the exact opposite of what I am saying.
Is English your first language.
Here. I'll spell it out in small words for you, on the offchance your first language is Martian.
He sent in a camera that was (apparently) broken.
He got back a camera that was working.
What part of this are you not getting?

In your canard, he sent in a camera that was broken and got back a camera that was broken.
How do you come even close to equating that to what I said?

QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
The OP hasnt specified exactly what they said when replacing it, but if they've agreed to replace it they must accept that there is something wrong with the camera.
They are, at least, accepting that the OP has found something wrong with the camera, even if they are unable to find the same problem. They could have just sent the original camera back, on the theory that since they couldn't replicate the problem, the problem doesn't exist.
I'm sure this would have made the OP even happier.

10-20-2011, 07:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Actually, that is the exact opposite of what I am saying.
Is English your first language.
Here. I'll spell it out in small words for you, on the offchance your first language is Martian.
He sent in a camera that was (apparently) broken.
He got back a camera that was working.
What part of this are you not getting?

In your canard, he sent in a camera that was broken and got back a camera that was broken.
How do you come even close to equating that to what I said?



They are, at least, accepting that the OP has found something wrong with the camera, even if they are unable to find the same problem. They could have just sent the original camera back, on the theory that since they couldn't replicate the problem, the problem doesn't exist.
I'm sure this would have made the OP even happier.
What you're saying is the equivalent of legal trickery. As a rule of thumb that only happens on TV.

Edit: to clarify, you're saying that as long as the replacement is in 'better' condition, then that discharges their warranty obligations. That isn't true.
10-20-2011, 07:36 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
What you're saying is the equivalent of legal trickery. As a rule of thumb that only happens on TV.

Edit: to clarify, you're saying that as long as the replacement is in 'better' condition, then that discharges their warranty obligations. That isn't true.
You're missing the point. Pentax could not replicate the problem and therefore there was no warranty obligation in this case. Furthermore, the warranty states that if the original cannot be fixed (or isn't cost effective to fixed), that a replacement camera can be provided. It does not have to be a new camera, nor does it have to have less shots on the shutter than the one being sent in. I agree it should be in comparable condition, and while it would be nice to have an equal or lower shutter count, under the circumstances described I'm not sure I'd be all that outraged. You are certainly welcome to disagree with my position, but it doesn't change the facts of this case nor the content of the warranty.
10-20-2011, 07:42 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
In your canard
Look everyone, it's Wheatfield's new big word of the day.
10-20-2011, 07:46 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
What you're saying is the equivalent of legal trickery. As a rule of thumb that only happens on TV.

Edit: to clarify, you're saying that as long as the replacement is in 'better' condition, then that discharges their warranty obligations. That isn't true.
Wow, you are a tough nut in the comprehension department.
Is this deliberate?
But to turn this back to you, are you saying that in order to discharge their warranty obligations the replacement has to be in worse condition?
You have kind of run yourself out of options here.
You are disagreeing with me that the replacement has to be better, so you must be saying that it needs to be worse in order to fulfill warranty.
I'm not quite seeing your logic.
Perhaps it's the time change. It's early her and late there?
10-20-2011, 07:48 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
You're missing the point. Pentax could not replicate the problem and therefore there was no warranty obligation in this case. Furthermore, the warranty states that if the original cannot be fixed (or isn't cost effective to fixed), that a replacement camera can be provided. It does not have to be a new camera, nor does it have to have less shots on the shutter than the one being sent in. I agree it should be in comparable condition, and while it would be nice to have an equal or lower shutter count, under the circumstances described I'm not sure I'd be all that outraged. You are certainly welcome to disagree with my position, but it doesn't change the facts of this case nor the content of the warranty.
I think everyone understands 'warranty' to mean the replacement will be in at least as good a condition as the original was.

Suppose Pentax fixed the freezing and glitches, but left a big scratch on the body? Would that be acceptable? I think not.

Now suppose the shutter count on the new camera was 100,000 clicks? Would that be acceptable? How about 50,000 clicks? How about 25,000?

The point is that the warranty replacement should not only completely fix the problem, but all other aspects of the camera should be in at least as good condition as the original. That isn't the case here.
10-20-2011, 07:48 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Look everyone, it's Wheatfield's new big word of the day.
I didn't realize that a 2 syllable word was a big word. I'll try to stick to shorter words for you in the future if the big ones give you trouble.
10-20-2011, 07:53 AM   #30
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Please, don't do that just for me. I can handle the larger ones just fine. I'd hate for you to be confused by having to find a new word of the day.
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