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10-21-2011, 10:33 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by mokey Quote
Thanks everyone for your input....I wanted to make sure I wasn't over reacting to what I thought was not a fair deal. At this point I will wait to see how Pentax Canada responds. Don's Photo is being extremely helpful, so as long as I have a working camera at this point in time, I'm happy. BTW, it seems that the replacement camera has had the main circuit board replaced (it's on the invoice) so I would assume that the shutter mechanism has not been replaced. Therefore, this "replacement" was probably not without it's own problems....At this point, I think a factory refurb FROM JAPAN would be the way to go. Or just send my original camera to Japan. At least they know what they are doing.
I would not get too upset about the shutter, they are supposed to last 100K operations and at your present shooting rate that's 30 years, but even if you shoot as I do, and assuming you don't upgrade at all this is about 6-7 years shooting still remaining, (15K images per year) maybe what you do is ask pentax, to specifically warrant the shutter for 2 years from receipt.

But if they replaced the main board, there is a lot of new stuff, including the sensor, so don't sweat it too much.

10-21-2011, 12:45 PM   #62
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Just to add to the discussion:

1. "Pentax could not replicate the problem" does not imply that the problem does not exist. Their technicians may not be competent enough to be able to replicate the problem. Getting a training and becoming a technician does not necessarily make one an expert trouble shooter. Also, some problems only occur under certain circumstances. Not sure if camera's have similar technology like cars do, to set a fault code when a fault occurs. Thankfully Pentax interprets this correctly, that is why they acknowledged the problem, and replaced it. This action on their part confirms the defect. Even though they were unable to reproduce it, it doesn't matter; they don't need to explain their diagnosis if they are covering for the repair costs. I guess they do it as a courtesy to satisfy the owner's curiosity, which is good.

2. I have not reviewed the expressed warranty terms, but the implied warranty would require them to replace the unit (repair/replace at their discretion) with another one which is in similar condition, not just a working unit. Moreover, the similar unit can not have the same or another defect; if it could then why would warranty be necessary? This is common sense. The replacement unit could be of equivalent age and/or usage, possibly less (new?), but never a more worn or used unit than the original equipment. They can always opt. to refund the market value/purchase price of the unit in case they are unable to provide an equivalent unit. With the car analogy, manufacturers can replace engines and transmissions under warranty with a used unit of similar or lower mileage - not more. Usually most manufacturers provide a new unit as replacement.

To the OP: I would suggest you escalate this to Pentax management and demand a new/newer unit as replacement. If they do not comply you can always take it up with the attorney general's office, or the trade commission and seek their intervention. Don't forget to advertise your case publicly on forums etc. to warn other consumers about Pentax's service.

Last edited by debmalya; 10-21-2011 at 12:53 PM.
10-21-2011, 01:02 PM   #63
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Here is one way to look at it:

Assume you have two identical cameras, except one has 3000 shutter count and another has 13000 shutter counts. For a prospective buyer, which camera would the buyer choose? Obviously the low shutter count unit, OR the buyer may choose the high shutter count unit for a discounted price: that discount will be the diminshed value of the replacement unit. This is the equivalent financial loss for the OP. The OP should not have to take a financial loss for having to make a warranty claim.
10-23-2011, 07:39 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by debmalya Quote
Here is one way to look at it:

Assume you have two identical cameras, except one has 3000 shutter count and another has 13000 shutter counts. For a prospective buyer, which camera would the buyer choose? Obviously the low shutter count unit, OR the buyer may choose the high shutter count unit for a discounted price: that discount will be the diminshed value of the replacement unit. This is the equivalent financial loss for the OP. The OP should not have to take a financial loss for having to make a warranty claim.
Here's another way to look at it: With the number of known bugs in the K5, and the extreme number of ways the K5 has of breaking, having a working one should be considered a victory, and should be a more important metric than the rather trivial one we are discussing. The OP already knows the individual hell that the K5 can put it's owner through in this regard.
Anyone who thinks the K5 is going to have any sort of significant residual value on the used market, given it's track record of quality issues, has rocks in their head.

10-23-2011, 10:45 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote

Anyone who thinks the K5 is going to have any sort of significant residual value on the used market, given it's track record of quality issues, has rocks in their head.


Quote / axiom of the day!
10-24-2011, 12:55 AM   #66
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The K-7 should be a good indication.
10-24-2011, 01:24 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Here's another way to look at it: With the number of known bugs in the K5, and the extreme number of ways the K5 has of breaking, having a working one should be considered a victory, and should be a more important metric than the rather trivial one we are discussing. The OP already knows the individual hell that the K5 can put it's owner through in this regard.
Anyone who thinks the K5 is going to have any sort of significant residual value on the used market, given it's track record of quality issues, has rocks in their head.
So since the K5 isn't going to have any "significant residual value" the OP should just smile and allow Pentax to fob her off with a less-than-perfect one? That doesn't even make sense.
10-24-2011, 04:24 AM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
So since the K5 isn't going to have any "significant residual value" the OP should just smile and allow Pentax to fob her off with a less-than-perfect one? That doesn't even make sense.
Dude, pull yer head out and look around.
The only reason why the shutter count would matter is resale value. The K5 won't have one no matter what, simply because it has a reputation for being a junk camera. If the one they sent back works (at the moment) in every way, then it's as close to perfect as she is going to get.
She could send the thing back, get a new one and be right back where she was originally by getting another faulty one.
Of course, it would have a lower shutter count, which would make your lot happy, but she would still be without a working camera.
I'm just saying pick your battles wisely.
You are saying something other than that.

10-24-2011, 04:35 AM   #69
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Perhaps your K5 is a junk camera, mine works very nicely thank you.

You really are an angry fellow aren't you?
10-24-2011, 09:03 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Here's another way to look at it: With the number of known bugs in the K5, and the extreme number of ways the K5 has of breaking, having a working one should be considered a victory, and should be a more important metric than the rather trivial one we are discussing. The OP already knows the individual hell that the K5 can put it's owner through in this regard.
Anyone who thinks the K5 is going to have any sort of significant residual value on the used market, given it's track record of quality issues, has rocks in their head.
Your point is irrelevant from warranty and contractual viewpoint. But I agree 100% with what you have said - no arguments there!
10-24-2011, 09:07 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by thoughton Quote
Perhaps your K5 is a junk camera, mine works very nicely thank you.

You really are an angry fellow aren't you?
Whichever way you slice it, your way or Wheatfield's way, the end result is Pentax quality sucks, no argument there. We may agree to disagree on the legal or practical viewpoints, but I guess we have a consensus that in the long run Pentax has proven their worth in QC and QoS.
It is true that the resale value of Pentax cameras drop like a brick, easy to verify in the forum marketplace.
10-24-2011, 09:37 AM   #72
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As a consumer - here's what I'd expect. A brand new purchased product should be free of defects and work as advertised. If not, that particular purchased unit should be repaired so that it is free of defects and work as advertised.

If that cannot be done, then as I see it, the manufacture can handle this one of two ways. They ought to replace the defective unit with a brand new unit, or refund the full purchase price. To do anything less is unacceptable, especially in Mokey's case since the camera has barely been used.

Pentax needs to address the quality control issues of the K-5 as an urgent matter. If they don't they may as well pack in as the camera company that could have been. It's mind boggling that they could manufacture such a high performance camera, a camera that puts them on the map, that is at least as good, if not better, than any other DSLR currently available, only to drop the ball with wretched quality control and then top it off with lousy customer service.
10-24-2011, 09:56 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
As a consumer - here's what I'd expect. A brand new purchased product should be free of defects and work as advertised. If not, that particular purchased unit should be repaired so that it is free of defects and work as advertised.

If that cannot be done, then as I see it, the manufacture can handle this one of two ways. They ought to replace the defective unit with a brand new unit, or refund the full purchase price. To do anything less is unacceptable, especially in Mokey's case since the camera has barely been used.

Pentax needs to address the quality control issues of the K-5 as an urgent matter. If they don't they may as well pack in as the camera company that could have been. It's mind boggling that they could manufacture such a high performance camera, a camera that puts them on the map, that is at least as good, if not better, than any other DSLR currently available, only to drop the ball with wretched quality control and then top it off with lousy customer service.
It looks more like design defect than QC. If QC would have discarded all these defective units, what would be left to sell? Pentax has a very miniscule market share compared to the competition. There are not a whole lot of Pentax cameras out there. If this forum is a good representation of current Pentax users, looking at all the defects that are reported by the members here - it seems a large fraction of Pentax's products have some kind of defect. I doubt effective QC would be able to fix this without making the brand further unpopular due to supply shortage and increased selling prices.
I can see why this brand is so unpopular with consumers and professionals.

Last edited by debmalya; 10-24-2011 at 10:03 AM.
10-24-2011, 11:06 AM   #74
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I don't think it's as much a design defect as it is quality control, especially when you consider the K-5 is utilizing an older design from the more reliable K-7, save for an upgraded sensor. I really think the quality control of this generation sucks (K-5 and K-r) especially when you look back and don't see as many reported issues with the K-7 or K-x combo when they were being manufactured. The designs of the current generation are not too dissimilar from the latter, so the problems shouldn't be chalked up to design. Unless they were designed to have problems.
10-24-2011, 11:11 AM   #75
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So...after Don's Photo going to bat for me....Pentax Canada will now replace the main circuit board of my original camera, which I can only assume, will fix the issues that it had. I really don't know why they didn't do this in the first place. If they could replace the demo units circuit board, why didn't they do mine? Oh well, at least I'll get my camera back. I know how it's been treated, as opposed to the other one. Thanks everyone for your input. And please, lets all be nice to each other!
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