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10-24-2011, 11:31 PM   #31
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Okay, I contected Pentax this morning and sent the camera in this afternoon for repairs. They were easy to work with and told me that most repairs take around 20 days, and to call in after a week to check on progress. My take on the camera is that it is an electronic device and things go wrong. I took my daughter who is learning photography to a photography seminar a month or two ago and the photographer was having problems with his Nikon D3s and at one point said under his breath but the mircophone caught it, said "I hate this camera." As for my camera I use it a lot. While I take good care of it I do not let it sit on the shelf, it goes pretty much everywhere with me. I do a lot of multi day rafting trips, I do keep it in a pelican case and it has never been wet more than some rain but it is well used. I just posted this as someone commented that nothing is known about the photographer and the camera's use. I will keep everyone apprised on how it all goes. Heck I payed a heck of a lot more for my truck and it has had to get repaired as well, well before the warrentee was up, it just happens. And dont get me started on computers hahaha.

10-24-2011, 11:53 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Pentax K5 problems = 691,000 in 0.09 seconds
Now if Pentax had the same market share of Nikon, that would = 12 million hits
And if Pentax had the same market share of Canon, that would = 20 million hits
That is the biggest load of statistical garbage I have seen for a while. What model Nikon and or Canon are you comparing the K5 to? Over what period? Would those hits be from posters having 'problems' or 'no problems'? Or would they be from posters who not only post about a 'problem' but then repeat it ad nauseum (?) in multiple threads in multiple forums, and also post commiserations/told-you-so for the benefit of those who do report a fault (or apparent fault.)

(note to self; if using latin terms, learn to spell latin!)
10-24-2011, 11:59 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Pentax K5 problems = 691,000 in 0.09 seconds
There we go again. Again, that was done without quotes, and includes results like this one:
"Pentax K5 is only $1500 now!!! I have problem to make any reply in this forum for the past week."
Even a more realistic search, like -- "problem with my K5" pentax -- (including the quotes) will include pages reporting that there "is no problem with my Pentax."
Folks, you're spinning your wheels. Only Pentax can have any idea how many units have been defective (so far; who knows what surprises remain in store) and they're obviously not going to share.
10-25-2011, 08:33 AM   #34
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@Sifu I was the one who mentioned knowing your history with the camera. Moisture can be tenacious, even with a weather-sealed camera. Fortunately, with a weather-sealed camera, they can't turn your repair down because it's gotten wet! Do post some of those rafting pictures.


QuoteQuote:
Pentax K5 problems = 691,000 in 0.09 seconds

Now if Pentax had the same market share of Nikon, that would = 12 million hits
And if Pentax had the same market share of Canon, that would = 20 million hits
These search results omit many variables, among which are:

*You need to consider ONLY the market segment that the k-5 is in (advanced amateur/semi-pro DSLR only)
*You need to consider that another manufacturer might have more cameras in that same market segment so searching for a specific model wouldn't represent overall problems from that company in that market segment
*Some models may have been out for a longer or shorter amount of time and so will have more or fewer results by nature
*Perhaps one model or manufacturer is simply talked about more by everyone in general, problems included.
*Pentax is the only manufacturer in your search that has a dedicated forum system, suggesting more active/involved users.
*Many digital photography sites will make any viewer aware of problems even if they don't own that particular camera and as such are not related to market share
*Users of one brand ma talk about problems with another brand; these are not market-share-related results either
*Even with a growing population of people with problems you can only start so many threads on the subject; as you get more sources about problems people start to tack their problems into the same threads or comments on an article rather than starting a new page/thread/review/warning themselves. There are more people that are reporting problems, yet they don't show up as results.
*Maybe one brand is more whiny and will make more posts per problem than the others.

I'm sure there are more variables that affect search results. The point is there are so many variables in these numbers that to try to make any comparison on the reliability of any pair of cameras, based solely on the number of search results, is almost willfully divisive (as it results in posts like these) and serves little educational purpose (except to expound upon the dangers of these numbers). We can make numbers say anything we want, folks. Please stop using numbers like these that only further obfuscate the truth.

The truth is that yes, The k-5 is a camera with many widespread problems, but those problems do not affect everybody and we do not know for sure how our problems compares to another camera's problems - either in scope or depth - unless manufacturers start posting their warranty return percentages for individual models. The truth is also that the K-5, when you get a copy that works fine like MOST K-5 buyers have, is a superb camera.

10-25-2011, 10:42 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by rod_grant Quote
That is the biggest load of statistical garbage I have seen for a while. What model Nikon and or Canon are you comparing the K5 to?
Listen, it's neither harmful nor fatal to think. So I'm going help you through this...

The first thing is you need to do is apply your mind to understanding. Take your time and read the post again. There's nothing cryptic there, so don't read between the lines. And it's not rocket science, so don't over think it.

We're talking about no other camera than the Pentax K-5. We're not comparing it to another camera, we're just talking about the Pentax K-5. Is that clear?

Now believe it or not, as much as we like Pentax, Pentax sells very few DSLRs compared to Canon and Nikon. But just imagine if Pentax owned the same market share belonging to Canon, so (as an example) instead of selling one K-5 a day, they sold 25 units a day!

Can you see where this is going? Just imagine how littered the forums would be with all the nonstop reports we hear about defects with the K-5.

I think Hoya saw the K-5 train wreck coming and jumped ship.
10-25-2011, 01:07 PM   #36
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JHD, I'm fully open to the possibility of your numbers being an accurate prediction , I just think you need to back them up a bit.

The thing holding my mind up is that I'm not sure the number of hits would scale with market share. help us understand by proving that this, the foundation of your numbers, is based in fact and not simply conjecture.

On a (sort-of) related note, where did you get your market share numbers? all I was able to find was an article from 2010 that didn't mention Pentax's DSLR share directly, only that of Canon, Nikon, and Sony. Here it is: Sony, Nikon Narrow Gap to Canon With New Digital Camera Models - Bloomberg
10-25-2011, 01:17 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I did exactly that and got two hits. One was to this thread, the other appeared to be some sort of spam website from India.
I know my 7D user friend is kind of shocked at the number of different possibilities the K5 has come up with, if not the volume, which really is hard to judge, though I suspect that as the number of different failures crop up the number of different units that will be affected will also go up.
I'd check my internet connection if I were you.

On the first short page when I did it were a video review, a written review, a blog from someone named Karen Donk and post on the Flickr forum mentioning quality control issues in the Google blurbs.

One happy 7d user doesn't prove any more than one happy K5 user.

Last edited by GeneV; 10-25-2011 at 01:27 PM.
10-25-2011, 01:53 PM   #38
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JHD's anglin' pretty hard to be the new ricehigh.

What a ridiculous trainwreck this thread turned into. Well done, dudes.

10-25-2011, 02:14 PM   #39
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Sifu you should stress to them that the camera failed when you were on a job.
10-25-2011, 08:03 PM   #40
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I know a local who is well invested in Canon and regrets every bit of it, but cannot afford to jump ship to Nikon.. He had a 30D or 50D and the sensor fried.. Canon would not come good on his warranty, because they changed who they sourced whatever part cause the fault.. they felt the company who made the part should cover the warranty. Of course the other company said "it's a Canon camera, take it to Canon.." he was already well invested in glass and went 9 months with using an older borrowed 20D.. still with no resolve from it to this day! He purchased a 5D MII when they hit.. but that kind of product support I think all my Canon glass would have went up for sale if I were in his shoes. When I went to price my k-5 from a few shops locally I talked to him about it and he was impressed from what he had seen and read of the K-5 and much like myself said "sure new products usually have some kinks to work out, as long as the support is decent it shouldn't matter what the problem is"... that's when he told me of his Canon woe's and why he would not go into a Canon system if he were to do it all over again. I know many others who are happy and satisfied with their Canon gear, good for them! But like anything people hear from the problems of the k-5.. a few bad apples...
I have no doubt there have been some issues with the K-5 since it's release, I also agree that if the market share was scaled up.. so would the number of reported units with issues. But I also think if they had a larger market share, they would also have thrown more money @ QC, more money @ support and servicing for those issues.. simply because they would have the funding to do so. Something maybe Hoya didn't think of when they decided to only half-assed market such a great camera.

Think of how many Ford Escorts were sold and very model Ford Focus's with the same 4 cylinder inline engine.. there is a MAJOR design flaw in the head of that engine in which the valve seat will litterally FALL down and destroy your valve and possibly your piston/connecting rod.. This same engine was in all of these units for well over a decade without a proper revision.. and why did they sell so damn well?? Good marketing! People never expected 200K out of one of these cars.. and that's usually the mark in which these let go.. if not sooner. But hey, they don't care because it happens out of warranty (most of the time).

I would rather have a unit that has issues that present themselves right away and/or are continuous.. that way they are easily identified and addressed.. a camera unit with poor capacitors/resistors in it is much worse IMO.. because the unit would be well off warranty by the time it went, and then it's all YOUR dime to fix their poor QC problem as opposed to them. Let the K-5's issues hit lots for the first year.. problems will be repaired and updates addressed. Units will be replaced w/new ones if needed, sure makes buying with your CC and getting extra warranty worth it!
10-25-2011, 08:24 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerm1386 Quote
JHD, I'm fully open to the possibility of your numbers being an accurate prediction , I just think you need to back them up a bit.

On a (sort-of) related note, where did you get your market share numbers?
From the Bloomberg article...
have
QuoteQuote:
In the market for cameras with interchangeable lens, or single lens reflex cameras, Canon controlled 44.5 percent of the market, followed by Nikon with 29.8 percent and Sony with 11.9 percent...

That leaves 14.1% market share to be split between six manufacturers...

Leica
Olympus
Panasonic
Ricoh
Samsung
and finally Pentax.

Of that remaining 14% market share, if it were to be divided equally among the above six manufacturers, that would leave 2.3% for each one... However I based my calculation on 1.5% market share for Pentax (see the Bloomberg article).

So in your wildest dreams, if Pentax had Canon's 44.5 % market instead of a mere 1.5%, it would sell on average 29.6 x more units of the K-5. You may not agree with the math, but you cannot deny that for all the faulty K-5's we have heard of... and continue to hear of... if Pentax had more than Lilliputian market share, this catastrophic lack of QC would be all the more seismic.

Last edited by JHD; 10-25-2011 at 08:32 PM.
10-25-2011, 08:40 PM   #42
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I don't want to...

QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
I think Hoya saw the K-5 train wreck coming and jumped ship.
I don't want to provoke you, but you aren't serious about the above statement - are you? Hoya decided to sell its entire camera division because of "potential" problems with one model?

Ford didn't stop making (or even redesign) the first generation of Explorer at the height of its roll-over accident controversy. Maybe an analogy with an American automobile manufacturer is stretching a bit, but my point is this: Corporations rarely put all their eggs in one basket. I doubt that Hoya put all theirs in the K-5.
10-25-2011, 09:18 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I don't want to provoke you, but you aren't serious about the above statement - are you? Hoya decided to sell its entire camera division because of "potential" problems with one model?
I do think it likely that Hoya cut input costs as much as they possibly could in order to make the camera division as profitable looking as they possibly could for potential buyers.
QuoteQuote:
Ford didn't stop making (or even redesign) the first generation of Explorer at the height of its roll-over accident controversy. Maybe an analogy with an American automobile manufacturer is stretching a bit, but my point is this: Corporations rarely put all their eggs in one basket. I doubt that Hoya put all theirs in the K-5.
Ford just blamed the tire manufacturer, even though they had an inherently unstable vehicle with the wrong tires and a dangerously low tire pressure recommendation.
They hung Firestone on the line to dry.
10-25-2011, 10:15 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I don't want to provoke you, but you aren't serious about the above statement - are you? Hoya decided to sell its entire camera division because of "potential" problems with one model?

Ford didn't stop making (or even redesign) the first generation of Explorer at the height of its roll-over accident controversy. Maybe an analogy with an American automobile manufacturer is stretching a bit, but my point is this: Corporations rarely put all their eggs in one basket. I doubt that Hoya put all theirs in the K-5.
JHD's point is only one side of the argument. It sounds to me that he's saying that Hoya dropped (or was looking to drop) Pentax because of QC problems in the K5 line. Thing is, wasn't the K5 under Hoya's watch? The K10, 20 and 7 were all under Samsung and even though they were a couple generations behind competitors there wasn't an issue with QC and build. Hoya puts out the K5 which, sorry, is just a K7 with a better sensor. Maybe it was in the pipeline earlier, who knows. But the fact is, under Hoya, things started to get a little loose. Was the factory move to Vietnam under Hoya? Curious.

To me, its like blaming the architect for your house falling down when it was the contractor that was cutting corners.
10-25-2011, 10:23 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Good grief, when does it end? This (the K-5) is by far the worst example of Pentax quality control. For such a niche brand this is horrible.
Imagine what it would do to Canon or Nikon if they were having the same variety and ratio of problems with one of their best selling cameras?
Hopefully Ricoh can and will turn things around. No wonder Hoya walked away from the brand.

Just an old troll that jumps at whatever chance to spin a simple thing as a camera failure to another one of those Pentax bashing threads and spread fear of the brand.






where I come from, its 10yrs detention without trial for you!
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