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11-20-2011, 05:10 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by alohadave Quote
You could put another flash next to it and trigger them together. It's a common solution. It allows you to reduce power for recycle time, or get more power if needed.
I understand that So it is actually a feasable solution. Thanks.

11-20-2011, 07:28 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
How about circumventing that by forcing the flash exposure an additional 1/2 stop in that case? Agreed it's a work around and it will result in longer recycle times, but wouldn't it work?
As Dave said, a second flash may be required (I suspect you are going to give up automation, though I could be wrong). It's also entirely possible that the flash may have enough power to output what is required.
When I said it was about a half stop, I was minimizing the issue, not maximizing it. I don't see a half stop as a deal breaker, but I spent many years doing fill flash with a Pentax 6x7 (1/30 f-sync), so I think 1/180th is wonderful.
11-20-2011, 08:44 AM   #33
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I was more a question of interest from my side. I sometimes use a flash in daylight to lighten up shadows, but results often are not better than without It needs understanding and practice, I guess
11-21-2011, 12:10 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
I was more a question of interest from my side. I sometimes use a flash in daylight to lighten up shadows, but results often are not better than without It needs understanding and practice, I guess
This is what I did with flash-by-daylight: PHOTOEIL
The trick is, in the beginning; trial and error, lots of polaroids and a good flash meter. Then slowly one gets to know how to and develop some 'fingerspitzengefühl' and can save on polaroids...
I have to admit, this is old school, shot on colour slide film with Hasselblad, Multiblitz (3 generators and 5 mono blocks), lots of cables to sync and about 400 m of power cables. I had no LCD panel nor a tethered computer to check, all I had where some 6x6 cm B&W polaroid prints (it was rather cold so colour polaroid would not develop well).
BTW, Hasselblad is very popular among strobists, due to its leafshutter system, but with a sync speed of 1/180" and 80 ISO (K5), it is certainly feasible...
I recall that on certain occasions the sync speed was around 1/2 sec at F 1:11 to F 1:16. Flash speed is that high so movements could be stopped, but not all situations are the same, so again, trial and error....

11-22-2011, 07:55 AM   #35
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Deiberson,

Assuming that the reason you want a higher sync speed is to limit the amount ambient light hitting the sensor. Using an ND filter will help you reach your goal. I have a B+W ND filter that gives me 3 stops exposure adjustment. So this means the K-5's max sync speed is 1/180th of a second with my ND filter on it's equivalent to having a sync speed of 1/1500th of a second(3 stops: 1/180 -> 1/350 -> 1/750 ->1/1500).

ND filters are good for other things too, many nature photographers use ND filters to get the silky smooth look of running water in a scene. ND filter allows them to shoot with a longer exposure, for example if the correct exposure of a waterfall scene is 1/60, F11, ISO100. With that same ND filter mentioned above you'll be able to set your shutter to 1/8, F11, ISO100 (3 Stops: 1/60 -> 1/30 -> 1/15 -> 1/8).

P.S. The limitation of these camera's sync speed is due to the mechanics of a curtain shutter. I think a Nikon D70 has a curtain shutter and an electronic shutter which allows the sync speed to go up to 1/500 native in camera since there are no mechanical parts to move. You can find a D70 for probably $150 on ebay.

I hope this helps. This is just off of top of my head if someone sees a mistake please correct me.

Joe
11-22-2011, 08:32 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by wmich Quote
Deiberson,

Assuming that the reason you want a higher sync speed is to limit the amount ambient light hitting the sensor. Using an ND filter will help you reach your goal. I have a B+W ND filter that gives me 3 stops exposure adjustment. So this means the K-5's max sync speed is 1/180th of a second with my ND filter on it's equivalent to having a sync speed of 1/1500th of a second(3 stops: 1/180 -> 1/350 -> 1/750 ->1/1500).

ND filters are good for other things too, many nature photographers use ND filters to get the silky smooth look of running water in a scene. ND filter allows them to shoot with a longer exposure, for example if the correct exposure of a waterfall scene is 1/60, F11, ISO100. With that same ND filter mentioned above you'll be able to set your shutter to 1/8, F11, ISO100 (3 Stops: 1/60 -> 1/30 -> 1/15 -> 1/8).

P.S. The limitation of these camera's sync speed is due to the mechanics of a curtain shutter. I think a Nikon D70 has a curtain shutter and an electronic shutter which allows the sync speed to go up to 1/500 native in camera since there are no mechanical parts to move. You can find a D70 for probably $150 on ebay.

I hope this helps. This is just off of top of my head if someone sees a mistake please correct me.

Joe
Other than the flash needing 8 times more power to blast through the 3 stop ND filter.....
11-22-2011, 08:39 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Other than the flash needing 8 times more power to blast through the 3 stop ND filter.....
That's what I thought at first but the flash exposure is actually controlled by aperture and ambient light is controlled by shutter speed.
11-22-2011, 09:00 AM   #38
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If you reduce the amount of light coming in, the amount reaching the sensor is also reduced. It does not matter if that is ambient light or flash light. So an ND filter will affect both.

11-22-2011, 09:09 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
If you reduce the amount of light coming in, the amount reaching the sensor is also reduced. It does not matter if that is ambient light or flash light. So an ND filter will affect both.
You guys are right. Thanks for the correction.

Joe
11-22-2011, 10:16 AM   #40
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Control the amount of ambient (day-) light with the shutter [curtain (from Bulb till the max sync speed) or feaf] and the flash light with the aperture.
The speed of the flash is always faster than the max sync speed, so the curtain speed will not affect the amount flash light, the aperture does.
Only when the flash light is to strong then, when the aperture can't be changed, a ND filter is needed.
To my humble opinion, a sync speed of 1/180" is not that bad at all and the difference with 1/250" is hardly 1/2 F stop...
An other way to proceed is the 'nuit Americaine' technique, but then you will need a lot of polarizers...
11-22-2011, 11:40 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Deiberson Quote
Sync speed @ 180th...this is one "limit" that I can accept.
Moderately annoying for me
QuoteQuote:
Lack of PocketWizzard compatibility.
Are you talking about TTL? The regular pocket wizards work quite fine. If you're talking about TTL, it's very expensive for any system and still has disadvantages (being fooled by clothes, etc.)
QuoteQuote:
Lack of battery pack options for the flashes....which means slower recycle times
This is why I've gone 3rd party manual. YN-560 ($75)'s and YN-460 II ($45)'s are great and cheap, and have a battery pack option. Used by many pro photographers.
QuoteQuote:
Lack of wireless ttl
Do you mean radio TTL? The Pentax flashes do have optical TTL, which is without wires.
QuoteQuote:
the limits of the af360 body in terms of swivel
3rd party!
QuoteQuote:
the AF system
The biggest annoyance for me. When shooting with flashes in low light, the assist-less autofocus struggles.
QuoteQuote:

I'll admit....I'm not a pro. So I need all the help I can get. When I watch tutorials from lets say kelbytraining.com and they are shooting examples using wireless ttl with pocket wizzards or whatever and controlling the each individual flash from the body then tethering the results to LR to watch on a bigger monitor and I can't do any of them to mimic the results....it gets frustrating. Not impossible, but I start to question why I chose this brand instead of having EVERYTHING that these guys have. Instead I'm left trying to justify why I don't need it or how I can work around it. Why should anyone have to do that when the technology is readily available on other avenues?
Wireless control certainly helps, but is far from necessary, especially in a controlled environment. And of course studio strobes and continuous lights are not TTL, which is what even more high end pros use.

Even in event off-camera flash photography, many will use manual strobist techniques for a number of reasons. The one situation where I can't go without TTL is when I have the flash on the camera and am moving around.
11-22-2011, 11:51 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Other than the flash needing 8 times more power to blast through the 3 stop ND filter.....
Which you can compensate for by using a portable studio strobe like an Einstein w/ VML

I still don't have a Pentax TTL flash...decided long ago that for the same price as a 540FGZ, I could get a few manual speedlights and wireless triggers and follow the ways of the Strobist to learn more about lighting the "hard way". It's been a good learning experience so far. The flashes have A mode that I use for event coverage...only thing I miss then is automatic zoom matching to my lens, but if you're bouncing off stuff, it doesn't really matter...
11-22-2011, 12:00 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
The one situation where I can't go without TTL is when I have the flash on the camera and am moving around.
I have a bunch of Yongnugo's and I have some mono lights for studio stuff....I usually shoot manual. But I'd LOVE wireless TTL with or without triggers.

Let me ask this....can shoot TTL in a commander mode with either the 360 or 540 as a slave if its line of sight? Does the af540 or K5 for that matter have the ability to command a group A and a group B from the body (camera or flash) ....sort of like the nikon's and sb900's?

that's all I really need. I have a 360 but would buy a 540 if it could do this.
11-22-2011, 12:11 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Deiberson Quote
I have a bunch of Yongnugo's and I have some mono lights for studio stuff....I usually shoot manual. But I'd LOVE wireless TTL with or without triggers.

Let me ask this....can shoot TTL in a commander mode with either the 360 or 540 as a slave if its line of sight?
Yes, any Pentax body will do this. In fact, depending on the slave sensor, it doesn't really have to be line of sight.
QuoteQuote:
Does the af540 or K5 for that matter have the ability to command a group A and a group B from the body (camera or flash) ....sort of like the nikon's and sb900's?
Nope, P-TTL does does not support groupings, but many manual flash triggers do. But you can't control power, just which group or combination of groups fire.

If you want that kind of control, the only options are switching and voice activated lightstands. Here's a good overview of all the TTL systems.
11-22-2011, 12:24 PM   #45
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here's a scenario....tell me what i can do
subject in front of camera facing left
off camera speed light camera left in TTL lets say its the key light shooting through a screen.
rim light coming in from behind subject camera right on a stand...this light is in manual or ttl, doesn't matter.


can i shoot the flash camera left in ttl remotely (lets say an af360) if i trigger it with an onboard flash? and can I control the FEC from the remote flash from where I'm shooting from? does the flash have to be pentax of can i trip the remote flash camera left with the light on board? Meanwhile, if I want to make an adjustment to the rim light camera right, can I adjust the power of the flash by using the controls from the on-board flash or K5 body?

not sure how this went from tethering....but I'm more interested in this anyway since this is what I grapple with day to day.
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