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11-21-2011, 05:30 PM   #1
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Expose to the right on K-5?

I have always followed this advice on my previous DSLRs starting with my Canon D60 then through a spat of Oly DSLRs. I now use and really like the K-5 but whenever I ETTR the highlights get really blown out. I am using the RGB histogram and I can see room in all to move up and I usually move a stop up to fill it in. The histograms then look right but when I get home and drop them into LR. They are just blown. No amount of slider manipulation will pull them back in. I guess I should be glad that my camera is metering dead on for the sensor but those gaps in the histogram sure bug me.

Has this been anyone else's experience with the K-5. I use a bevy of DA and FA primes and they all act the same way. Any thoughts appreciated.

Dave

11-21-2011, 05:39 PM   #2
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I dial down to -0.7 EV 90% of the time. No matter what the lens. This is way different from K100d or K7d that I am more used to. My guess is that Pentax tried to please the masses and gave up on preserving highlights, no matter what.

Last edited by Ex Finn.; 11-21-2011 at 05:46 PM.
11-21-2011, 06:13 PM   #3
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I think with the K5 the dynamic has changed, so to speak. Preserve highlights at all costs and let the shadows fall where they will (which is eerily reminiscent of Fred Picker's approach to the Zone System) and bring the mids and low end up in post.
11-21-2011, 07:58 PM   #4
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K-5 = ETTL
Oh, and I agree with Ctein (that's a clickable link, not my emphasis).

EDIT: for those of you quoting me and saying "that linked article essentially says 'just expose to the right properly'' - please try reading Ctein's article, then chew your dogma before swallowing. I know, it's hard to learn new tricks (or unlearn old ones), but time and technology march on. Now, if you don't use a K-5, then exposing to preserve highlights might result in a darker image you can't recover the dynamic range from, but that's not the sensor we're discussing...


Last edited by panoguy; 11-22-2011 at 08:12 PM.
11-21-2011, 08:31 PM   #5
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A few comments:

1. You said that you are dropping your photos into Lightroom, but you didn't say specifically that you were shooting RAW. I assume that you are.

2. The in-camera histogram measures luminance values of a rendered JPEG, not the luminance value of the actual RAW file. There can be some discrepancy. More importantly, it can be difficult to see highlight blow-out on the histogram when relatively few pixels (compared with the rest of the image) are involved. It's not a precision tool but more like a rough guide. I find the blinkies much more useful than the histogram.

3. ETTR, like other exposure methods, is a tool that you use based on the subject matter that you are photographing. It is not a tool for every subject. You need to use the computer between your ears to figure out which method of exposure is suitable for the subject matter and the emphasis desired in the photograph. If you use ETTR for every single photo situation, I guarantee you are gonna blow highlights on some of them.

Fortunately you are shooting with a modern digital camera that can tell you (via blinkies) which pixels are clipping. Then you can decide if you want to adjust exposure to compensate.
11-21-2011, 08:42 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
K-5 = ETTL
Oh, and I agree with Ctein (that's a clickable link, not my emphasis).
That article boils down to "It is hard to know with current cameras whether or not important highlights are blown, so be careful and reduce exposure to protect them." That is not ETTL. In fact, it is ETTR properly applied. In a recent article, Reichmann wrote that "...this means that you should bias your exposure towards the highlights, and the right side of the histogram. But, it definately doesn't mean blowing the highlights."

Jeff
11-21-2011, 08:50 PM   #7
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Dave, this topic has already been discussed here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/162940-k5-vs-k7-dynamic-range.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/156658-noise-when-underexposing-maybe.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/135603-isoless-sensor.html

Dan.

11-21-2011, 09:33 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the replies, Yes I shoot RAW exclusively. I only brought it up because none of my previous DSLRs behaved that way. With my Oly gear, I would push to the right till I was 1 digit off and it was perfect. I often found the histogram on my K-5 had a gap on the right but when I filled it in, the highlights got blown. Now I know it is not specific to my camera.

Actually Michael Reichmann bemoaned the manufacturers lack of proper metering. I am glad that my K-5 seems to meter perfectly most of the time. It is a new piece of gear for me and am getting to know it. I also did not know that the histograms were from the JPG version of the image and not from the RAW. This is good to know. It explains a lot of what I am seeing. Turn on the blinkies. And I did use my head, I asked a question. Now I know more than I did a little bit ago, I believe that is how we learn from each other. Now I will to settle down and finish reading Ctien's article.

Thanks again for all the input, Dave

Last edited by djc737; 11-21-2011 at 09:48 PM.
11-22-2011, 05:39 AM   #9
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I think it is best to try to get the best exposure possible. Obviously the widened dynamic range of the k5 means that you can expose a little darker and still bring up the shadows without too much noise when shooting at low iso. However, in darker situations (iso 3200 and above), it is nice to hit the exposure as close as possible. Generally I use between -.5 and +.5 EV compensation and adjust it based on the lighting situation.
11-22-2011, 06:20 AM   #10
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The earlier Pentax DSLRs were very reluctant regarding exposure.
This resulted in many complaints about underexposure.
It changed with the K5. It really tries to ETTRmax.
Of course this can never be universally right, but overall I think it is an improvement.

I agree with the TO that histograms are not really comparable.
The camera histogram almost always looks different than the one in PS or in PPL.
11-22-2011, 06:56 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
The earlier Pentax DSLRs were very reluctant regarding exposure.
This resulted in many complaints about underexposure.
It changed with the K5. It really tries to ETTRmax.
Of course this can never be universally right, but overall I think it is an improvement.

I agree with the TO that histograms are not really comparable.
The camera histogram almost always looks different than the one in PS or in PPL.
Yes, this one got me for sure. On my Oly cams, it must have been a RAW histogram because the one on the cam and the one in PS were always identical. So the mismatch threw me for a loop. This is fine for me now that I know it is an apples and oranges situation. The more I learn about the K-5 from you guys the more more I know about the beast I am trying to tame.

Last edited by djc737; 11-22-2011 at 05:45 PM.
11-22-2011, 04:34 PM   #12
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I think one of the keys to ETTR is to use UNIWB...that is because the camera assumes a white balance when coming up with the histogram. You also need a linear tone curve. At least thats what I was taught.
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