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11-29-2011, 10:29 AM   #1
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Battery/Power Problem - CRIS's Repair

Rather than resurrect the original thread I'll just recap my problem and then post CRIS's repair action. CRIS received my K5 on 10/27 and their site reports return shipment on 11/28. That seems to be about average. Haven't received it yet of course but I'm eager to see how it works now. I'm very optimistic as it seems they were quite thorough.

QUOTE "I've had my first K5 since mid-December 2010, it was manufactured on 11/30/2010. I've kept the firmware updated, taken almost 21K pictures, and until recently I've had none of the major problems others have experienced, stains, AF issues, runaway mirrors, buttons falling out, etc, etc. However in the last two weeks I've had some weird battery/power issues. I have two batteries, the Pentax that came with the camera, and a Pearstone compatible bought at the same time as I bought the camera from B&H. Usually I get about 700 shots from the Pearstone and about 500 from the Pentax with a moderate amount of in-camera picture peeping. I've never used video, only tried out live-view, but I have used the High FPS feature several times. Also almost all my shooting is in daylight, very little flash use.

The one minor irritation with my K5 has been the battery level indicator has never been especially reliable. But up until now when the camera stopped shooting, I simply replaced the battery with a fully charged one and pressed on. Recently tho my batteries have given me quite reduced shutter counts per charge. Without warning, the K5 simply refuses to fire, I get a "Battery Depleted" message on the lcd, however the lens will still focus, I can still display shots taken, but the shutter won't fire. The battery indicator still shows a full charge. Removing and relacing the same battery does nothing, and even after switching to a fully charged battery I still get the battery depleted message. The first time I removed all batteries and let the camera sit overnite. The next morning I inserted the fully charged battery from the day before and the camera came up normally. To my surprize all my settings were still intact. This scenario has repeated itself several times now. It happens with either battery. The last time I was able to get the K5 to power back up after an hour and a half, and using the same battery that had been in the camera when it stopped working. Also during this time I experienced my first mirror lockup - which cleared when I R&R'd the battery and I was able to press on. Now while I take a lot of pictures during the day I only use High-rate FPS on occasion. I do rely on AF-C quite a bit tho which has worked pretty well for me." UNQUOTE

CRIS Listed Repair Actions (from their web site)

"REPLACED MAIN PCB/FPC
UPDATED FIRMWARE
PERFORMED SHUTTER OVERRUN MODIFICATION
AFTERMARKET BATTERIES ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN THIS CAMERA AND NOT ARE NOT
SUPPORTED BY PENTAX.
RESET ALL
CLEANED AND CHECKED TO MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS"

FYI, while I mentioned in my note to CRIS that I used an aftermarket battery, they did not try to assign any fault in the camera to it. I only ever used the Pentax charger and there was no sign of leakage. My guess is they had seen this problem before and knew the cause/fix. Will add a final note after I get things checked out.


Last edited by geezer52; 11-29-2011 at 10:37 AM.
11-29-2011, 10:37 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear about your problem. One question: Does anyone know what "REPLACED MAIN PCB/FPC" means? If this is widely known please excuse my ignorance.
11-29-2011, 10:52 AM   #3
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I believe it means

PCB - Printed Circuit Board
FPC - Flexible printed Circuit

In sum I think it means the main computer circuitry controlling the camera but I don't know if it includes the actual firmware module
11-29-2011, 11:42 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by geezer52 Quote
I believe it means

PCB - Printed Circuit Board
FPC - Flexible printed Circuit

In sum I think it means the main computer circuitry controlling the camera but I don't know if it includes the actual firmware module
Thanks. Sounds like they did a brain transplant on the camera. Please let us know how it works when you receive it.

11-29-2011, 04:09 PM   #5
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Firmware is usually located in the main microcontroller of an electronic system. I am inclined to believe that in case of digital cameras this resides in the image processor (the main microcontroller for this case). Anyway it sounds they replaced the whole electronic system in the camera. Seems it's much cheaper for them to replace the entire electronic module than to seek out and repair individual components.
12-06-2011, 04:53 AM   #6
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Update

Well received K5 back from CRIS and finally got a short session to try it out. Initial results mixed. While going thru the process to re-calibrate a few of my lenses w/ micro adjust the K5 froze, "battery depleted" just like the original problem. The camera would focus and play taken images but wouldn't fire. However a firm tap had the camera working - which suggests to me it might be more of a mechanical problem rather than electric with the "battery depleted" message just being a default response. I'm also a bit concerned that the exposures are sometimes inconsistant - for example I took a basic outdoor shot and it was very overexposed, retook the shot without changing the settings and the 2nd shot was good. Should be able to give the camera an extended workout this weekend and we'll see. I don't want to get too concerned too soon but I think I'll send an FYI e-mail back to CRIS just to initiate a documentation record in case I need to send it back again.
12-07-2011, 05:16 AM   #7
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Geezer52: May I ask if you have tried this...?

"The camera would only state the battery was depleted after pressing the shutter release. Otherwise the batt indicator would show as full.

After trying everything with the settings, including restoring default settings and 'hard resets', I found that by pressing the live view button twice (first press showed a completely black screen) resolved the problem and now all is fine."

See...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/166741-k5-shutter-release-problem.html

Just curious.

Cheers...
12-07-2011, 06:16 AM   #8
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Michaelina2

No I haven't tried it, haven't even thought of it, as it does sound like an odd fix action to take. But if it happens again I will give it a shot, why not. I suppose it's no odder than giving the K5 a small rap to get things back in order.

I noticed in CRIS repair actions they performed the "mirror overrun modification". Again I wonder if it's something of a mechanical issue vice electronic. After all they are both components of the system. I'm imagining small gears in the mirror system getting "stuck" and a small rap jarring things back into place. Going into live view also pulls the mirror out of the way. mayhaps it accomplishes the same thing. I'm just thrashing a few thoughts, until I can give things a sound workout this coming weekend.

I did give CRIS a heads up e-mail regards this repair and they in turn asked what kind of battery I was using. I have two Pentax batteries and since getting this K5 back have only used them. I also have only ever used the Pentax charger that came with my K5s.

12-07-2011, 11:45 AM   #9
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May need new thread...

QuoteOriginally posted by geezer52 Quote
PERFORMED SHUTTER OVERRUN MODIFICATION
We might want to start a new thread about this. The above notation by the CRIS technician leads one to believe that there is a known design flaw and that a "modification" is necessary to correct it. Does this not imply that every camera needs the modification to prevent "shutter overrun?"

Last edited by lammie200; 06-22-2012 at 08:51 AM.
12-15-2011, 10:24 AM   #10
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Have finally had the opportunity to give my repaired K5 a good workout. I took about 500 shots last weekend and can confidently report the following.

1. I checked the focus on all my most used lenses and everyone needed to be adjusted for front-focus, including lenses that needed no adjustment before the repair actions. And these lenses that needed no adjustment before require no adjustment on my other new K5. The degree of adjustment was not consistent - I mean they did not all need say 5 steps adjustment, it varied. One lens formerly spot on had to be adjusted to -7. One lens which previously had a slight back focus now requires nothing which in effect still means the focus moved forward. All lenses could be adjusted with the limits of the menu.

2. Once adjusted the lenses gave excellent results when hitting the intended target. I generally shoot center-point focus but it seemed to be more finicky than before, that is focus seemed to drift off occasionally when recomposing the image. Likewise exposure was usually good but occasionally got a wild hair with wild results. No immediately discernible pattern but I will keep with it and see if I have just missed a setting somewhere. But it is a bit different from my new K5, which performs pretty much like my old K5 did before going in for repair.

3. Looked at an image with PhotoME and noted that my shutter count had been reset. Not sure exactly what that means but will assume for now it's a good thing. Before going in for repair the K5 had approx 21.5K shutter activations. Perhaps I now have a completely new shutter mechanism.

4. Twice the K5 locked up with the "battery depleted" message, even tho the Pentax battery had plenty of charge. Each time a firm tap moved whatever needed to be moved and it started working fine again. Please note that I say a "firm tap" and NOT a "hard smack". If a "hard smack" ever becomes necessary then it's time to send it back in. For now I'm willing to live with it. The issue will either resolve itself thru use, (new parts may need a break in period) or the problem will get worse over time which means sending it back in (I have the extended warranty so not too concerned)
12-15-2011, 02:23 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by geezer52 Quote
The degree of adjustment was not consistent
That is no surprise. Each lens has it's own manufacturing tolerances/ variations, just like each body does. So every body/lens combination is likely to be unique, in some small way.
12-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
The above notation by the CRIS technician leads one to believe that there is a known design flaw and that a "modification" is necessary to correct it. Does this not imply that every camera needs the modification to prevent "shutter overrun?"
You are drawing unreasonable conclusions about the probably 100,000+ K-5's manufactured since last year from one simple random scrap of information. Are you Rice High?
12-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #13
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OK...

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
You are drawing unreasonable conclusions about the probably 100,000+ K-5's manufactured since last year from one simple random scrap of information. Are you Rice High?
...only one point was made, not "unreasonable conclusions."

The techinician wrote that a "modification" was necessary. Perhaps he/she may have been sloppy with their notation and they used the term "modification" when they meant "fix." I don't know. However, from my experience with the world, products, and the internet, someone will flush out what is actually wrong with the K-5 shutter that would require a "modification" or a "fix." By me posting that it is fuzzy about whether the term "modification" implies that there is a design flaw may help convey some urgency for an explanation whether it be from Pentax, a Pentax fanboy, or a Pentax detractor.

As far as being "Rice High" goes, the answer is probably "no." I don't know what it means although I am sure that the wonderful internets will help me find out. I may wish that I am "Rice High."

Last edited by lammie200; 06-22-2012 at 08:52 AM.
12-15-2011, 03:21 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I may wish that I am "Rice High."
Probably not, he was a troublemaker and got banned by fanboys.
12-15-2011, 03:35 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I don't know what it means although I am sure that the wonderful internets will help me find out.
He's a Pentax enthusiast who is notorious for taking mere scraps of information or reports about various Pentax camera bugs found on various (often Chinese) forums and then drawing fantastic and ALWAYS negative conclusions from them. Along the lines of 'OMG one user on xitek forum reported his K-5 has problem with it's battery door - that must mean a design flaw, and bad electronics, and poor quality control, and bad work by the assembly line workers, and why cant Pentax see this problem, and Nikon and Canon never have these issues, and therefore all K-5 are garbage, and Pentax is doomed!'.

Then his next blog post says much the same thing, time and again.
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