[stevelink]

Season's Greetings!
I've been tasked with shooting an indoor family portrait (6 adults and 1 dog) today. I was planning to use my K-5 with a DA 16-45, and 2 umbrella-mounted flashes, a Sunpak Auto 383 Super and a Metz 50 AF-1, both on optical bubble flash triggers, triggered by the K-5 built-in flash in "Commander" mode. Has anyone tried a similar set-up? What's the best way to ensure that all flashes fire simultaneously, for a good exposure at, say, 1/160 sec at f/8? (I seem to be getting a decent exposure, but not sure if all my settings are correct (Sunpak on "Manual" and Metz on "Slave" mode, K-5 Wireless "On", flash in "Commander" mode).
Thank you! ~Steve

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Last edited by stevelink; 12-25-2011 at 11:05 AM.

[D4rknezz]

I havent used sunpack yet - though I'd suggest playing around / familiarize with the manual mode for Metz as well (servo mode i think), just in case PTTL goes wonky. I just did a xmas shoot (see the photo section) where i brought the Metz - and the PTTL went wonky and fired full power for every shot! Good luck, have fun!

[creampuff]

TS, basically the flash units that you're using cannot fully communicate with the camera. The slave units may trigger the flash units when they detect the on-camera flash, but there is little or no control over the light output, so your results will be likely be a hit or a miss.

[D4rknezz]

Oh btw, on servo mode - the metz does NOT fire at 1/1. You have to go lower or equal to 1/4 power.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-flashes-lighting-technique/160117-...tz-58-af2.html

Great. This would have been great to know 2 nights ago. I really dont like these little tidbits of undocumented work arounds. Maybe we need to have a board for undocumented work arounds, guys.

Then again..the servo mode of Metz 58 is an addition to the firmware and is NOT in the printed manual. So the feature by itself is undocumented.

[demp10]

Steve, most likely the build-in emits a control flash that triggers your optical slaves before the shutter opens. It then emits another control flash when the shutter is opened. The slaves are still recycling at that time from the first discharge and do not fire. Pentax flashes that are designed for such opperation, coordinate with the build-in and discharge on the second control flash. They also do P-TTL to control the exposure.

If you have another small manual flash, mount it on the camera, set the camera to X-mode, set the flash to its lowest output and see if that triggers the others properly. Your best option will be to use wireless triggers. If the flashes have low voltage you can use PC cords and fire them that way also.

Good luck,

Demetri

[Aegon]

According to Metz, the latest 50 AF-1 firmware offers pre-flash suppression: http://www.metz.de/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&file=fileadmin/fm-dam/Do...83d411d3fc0639

Get the latest firmware here: mecablitz 50 AF-1 digital: Metz

[stevelink]

Greetings All.
Thank you for your expertise!
I was not extremely pleased with the outcome, for various reasons, but luckily, I am much more picky than my family is!
The image was shot with the following settings:
On the Pentax K-5:
Lens: Pentax DA 16-45 at 19mm (Approx. 10 ft. from group)
Flash in Wireless Mode: Off
Manual Mode: 1/125 sec at f/9 ISO 200
Built-in Flash Mode: On at -0.7
Quality: RAW + JPEG Fine

Umbrella Flashes:
Metz Mecablitz 50 AF-1 at Full Power (P= 1/1) Servo Mode into a 44” white umbrella approx. 5 ft. from group at camera right (Main light)
Sunpak Auto 323 Super at ISO 200 Manual Full Power into a 40” white umbrella approx. 6 ft. from group at camera left (Fill)

The resulting image looked about a half stop under-exposed (both on LCD and display in Photoshop prior to correction), but I knew I could somewhat "correct" exposure in Photoshop. However, I did not want to either open the aperture (needed DOF for both rows of people in focus) or increase the ISO (200 is acceptable insofar as noise), and I could not really move the umbrellas any closer or they would have intruded into the image.
I just don't understand why a Metz flash made for Pentax cameras would not sync properly. Perhaps I had an incorrect setting on the K-5. (I realize that a light kit such as those by Profoto, Dynalite, Elinchrom, etc. would have worked better, or possibly the radio slaves as you suggested.
Anyway, thanks again, and Happy Holidays!

[D4rknezz]

Naw...I have elinchrom. The pre-flash makes that a hit and miss too. Radio trigger is the way to go. Cheers !

Greetings All.
Thank you for your expertise!
I was not extremely pleased with the outcome, for various reasons, but luckily, I am much more picky than my family is!
The image was shot with the following settings:
On the Pentax K-5:
Lens: Pentax DA 16-45 at 19mm (Approx. 10 ft. from group)
Flash in Wireless Mode: Off
Manual Mode: 1/125 sec at f/9 ISO 200
Built-in Flash Mode: On at -0.7
Quality: RAW + JPEG Fine

Umbrella Flashes:
Metz Mecablitz 50 AF-1 at Full Power (P= 1/1) Servo Mode into a 44” white umbrella approx. 5 ft. from group at camera right (Main light)
Sunpak Auto 323 Super at ISO 200 Manual Full Power into a 40” white umbrella approx. 6 ft. from group at camera left (Fill)

The resulting image looked about a half stop under-exposed (both on LCD and display in Photoshop prior to correction), but I knew I could somewhat "correct" exposure in Photoshop. However, I did not want to either open the aperture (needed DOF for both rows of people in focus) or increase the ISO (200 is acceptable insofar as noise), and I could not really move the umbrellas any closer or they would have intruded into the image.
I just don't understand why a Metz flash made for Pentax cameras would not sync properly. Perhaps I had an incorrect setting on the K-5. (I realize that a light kit such as those by Profoto, Dynalite, Elinchrom, etc. would have worked better, or possibly the radio slaves as you suggested.
Anyway, thanks again, and Happy Holidays!

[stevelink]

Thank you all for your valuable information! Though I did manage to get a decent portrait using the setup described, I still feel that my image was at least 1/2 stop underexposed out of the camera, as I had to do some post-processing to obtain a "correctly exposed" image. I think my question is, On the K-5, which wireless flash mode to set that eliminates the "pre-flash", so that the Metz and Sunpak flashes wll only see a single flash and the optical slaves will then work correctly? (I was thinking "Control", since I want the built-in flash to simply trigger the main umbrella flashes, and to only add eye "sparkle".) Thank you!

[Kameraten]

Although the built-in flash will always emit a pre-flash and thus be unsuitable as a trigger a flash on the camera shoe will fire at the right time to work as a trigger when it's set to manual (you may want to reduce the output to something like 1/8 - 1/32). If you are using a Pentax flash on the camera you may want to set the camera to M too, otherwise the flash will revert to A or TTL mode every time you turn the camera off and on again.

[tessagree]

Flashes can behave erratically when we least need it, so test well before the shoot and always have a a back up plan!
BTW I use the Cyber commander system which is great except the 540 Pentax flash only triggers correctly at 1/50th second!
Here is the Australian link to the set up
https://paulcbuff.com.au/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.brows...id=15&Itemid=1