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12-28-2011, 08:47 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisA Quote
Unstabilised SR is often worse than no SR at all.

For the thousands of shots of your son's football games taken with SR on, how confident are you that SR was stabilised, or 'ready', as indicated by the 'hand' icon in the VF?
Very confident. What I would normally do is either use free hand or a monopod and focus right on the ball or some other target that would be where I thought the players would be prior to the snap, and keep the button pressed half way until the players were in the position I wanted for the shot, normally about 5-7 seconds. Also, due to the frustration of the blurry photo's I was more aware than I normally would be. I didn't see the 'hand' every time but I'm confident it was there. I can check the EXIF, but I'm sure. Most of the time I was using the 50-135, which is a good focusing lens for me...

12-29-2011, 06:47 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snydly Quote
Very confident. What I would normally do is either use free hand or a monopod and focus right on the ball or some other target that would be where I thought the players would be prior to the snap, and keep the button pressed half way until the players were in the position I wanted for the shot, normally about 5-7 seconds. Also, due to the frustration of the blurry photo's I was more aware than I normally would be. I didn't see the 'hand' every time but I'm confident it was there. I can check the EXIF, but I'm sure. Most of the time I was using the 50-135, which is a good focusing lens for me...
Well it's a bit of a mystery then. No disrespect, but unless your camera is defective, I simply don't believe that SR, properly used, results in more camera shake over thousands of shots, than no SR. Without further corroborative evidence, my money would go on there being some other cause that you haven't considered yet.

For instance, you could have just had two lucky games. Or you may subconsciously be taking more care over holding the camera still now that you know you don't have SR on your side. It's anyone's guess really, but dud camera aside, I don't buy it

Again no disrespect, but this is the sort of anecdotal account that makes it hard to separate the myth from the reality. For the claim to hold any water, you'd need to do some proper tests, using repeatable conditions.
12-29-2011, 10:42 AM   #18
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ChrisA, your reply is every bit as 'anecdotal' as mine. The simple fact that camera manufacturers recommend turning SR, VR, VC or similar off in certain situations leads me to believe the function has limits. Recent refinements in the system such as the ability to turn off an axis add to this belief.

Most of what I post here is benign, hopefully thought provoking and in no way resolute, so your dismissal of my Ideas is unnecessary.

I made no technical claim, only observations, so what you choose to 'buy' is irrelevant to me.
12-30-2011, 08:28 AM   #19
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Why is it that people won't have discussions any more, but instead just get all offended when someone challenges something? I'm not trying to be dismissive, or impugn anyone's motives, I'm just interested to get to the bottom of this SR thing, and find some solid conclusions based on hard evidence. Sometimes that takes a bit of to-and-fro to get to the root of things.

QuoteOriginally posted by Snydly Quote
ChrisA, your reply is every bit as 'anecdotal' as mine.
I don't get your point. I'm not describing my results here. By 'anecdotal', all I mean is, without hard evidence.

QuoteQuote:
The simple fact that camera manufacturers recommend turning SR, VR, VC or similar off in certain situations leads me to believe the function has limits. Recent refinements in the system such as the ability to turn off an axis add to this belief.
Yes, I accept that.

Rereading your post, it's not clear to me how the photos were taken. Your question was about SR on a tripod, but then you mention free hand and a monopod.

Was the camera on a tripod at the time of the shots in question? Presumably still requiring you to move the camera to where the action is, and press the button to release the shutter? Apologies if so, I took it to mean that you weren't using a tripod.

QuoteQuote:
Most of what I post here is benign, hopefully thought provoking and in no way resolute, so your dismissal of my Ideas is unnecessary.
I'm not dismissing anything, just trying to get an understanding of exactly what was going on. With a view to perhaps designing a suitable experiment in due course.

12-30-2011, 08:44 AM   #20
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I always turn SR off on a tripod.

I use my camera for astrophotography with a GEM (German Equatorial Mount). A GEM is a motorized tripod that slowly rotates to counteract star movement during long exposures. If I accidentally leave SR on, my K-r sounds like a cell phone in vibrate mode as SR tries to counteract the intentional rotation of the GEM. This is a very special case though, and doesn't tell us much about SR and stationary tripods.
12-30-2011, 09:55 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
my K-r sounds like a cell phone in vibrate mode as SR tries to counteract the intentional rotation of the GEM. This is a very special case though, and doesn't tell us much about SR and stationary tripods.
I had the very same experience when I used my K-7 with a mirror 500mm lens + a 2x teleconverter for some resolution target testing on a fairly stable tripod and try to use Live View. The sensor was picking the vibrations from the system and in the attempt to correct them made the entire setup to jump around literally. Everything went quite once I turned the SR off.
12-30-2011, 10:11 AM   #22
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Ok ChrisA, against my better judgement... What do you expect when someone summarizes an observation you made with, "I don't buy it"? That's as far as I will go in an attempt to help you understand the effect of the written word here, and don't worry, you can't offend me.

I was actually in agreement with you on page 1 of this thread, but for some reason you felt it was necessary to challenge my observation while contradicting yourself, which led me to believe you were just looking for an argument. You stated you left SR on because you felt sufficient evidence to the contrary was without merit, but then challenged my knowledge of the 'proper use' of it.

I agree that SR seems a bit confusing at times, but believe it's a nice feature when it works. I'll leave it there as I'm sure some of the more technically advanced members here will, or may already have generously given us better information on this subject.

Have a great new year...
12-30-2011, 10:35 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snydly Quote
Ok ChrisA, against my better judgement... What do you expect when someone summarizes an observation you made with, "I don't buy it"? That's as far as I will go in an attempt to help you understand the effect of the written word here, and don't worry, you can't offend me.
Well I apologise if that use of words was clumsy and irritated you, and I'm certainly not looking for an argument. You seem very quick in your judgement that my intent is somehow dishonourable. I meant nothing more than "I'm not convinced".

QuoteQuote:
I was actually in agreement with you on page 1 of this thread, but for some reason you felt it was necessary to challenge my observation while contradicting yourself, which led me to believe you were just looking for an argument. You stated you left SR on because you felt sufficient evidence to the contrary was without merit, but then challenged my knowledge of the 'proper use' of it.
No, all I challenged was what I thought you meant - that over thousands of shots you got poor results with SR on, and suddenly better results with SR off, with the camera not on a tripod. That just sounds unlikely if the camera is working right, so merits a closer look at what might be causing the difference.

Now, maybe I misunderstood you - if your sudden change in results were in shots taken on a tripod, it may be the first actual evidence I've heard of that SR on, on a tripod, may cause an actual problem - in which case it's even more worth a careful look.

I do assure you that I wasn't implying anything at all about your knowledge, skill, or anything else. I'm interested in the SR story, thats all, and whenever I read about someone's observations - especially if they're counterintuitive in some way - I'm similarly interested in getting to the bottom of what's actually happening.

12-30-2011, 11:44 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
If I accidentally leave SR on, my K-r sounds like a cell phone in vibrate mode as SR tries to counteract the intentional rotation of the GEM.
My experience is with my K20D. I mounted my M40-80/2.8-4 on the camera. I mounted my Kenko 180 Degree Fisheye adapter on the zoom. I set the camera+optics on a flat tabletop. I set the SR switch to on, flick the power on, then push it into LiveView. The camera+optics vibrates enough to move ~1kg of hardware around the tabletop, no joke. Don't try this atop a refrigerator, kids.

Last edited by RioRico; 12-30-2011 at 11:49 PM.
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