Firmware improvements

cbope · 01-08-2012, 12:36 AM

Back to the original topic, I want to be able to calibrate the digital level in-camera. For example, I should be able to place the camera on a level surface and then just tell the camera "this is level", and the firmware will save this calibration.

I recently discovered my level is off by 3 segments, and I'm not willing to send the camera in for repair and lose the use of it for untold weeks/months for a simple problem I could fix myself, if the setting were available in the firmware.

Dionisis_K · 01-08-2012, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by cbope

Back to the original topic, I want to be able to calibrate the digital level in-camera. For example, I should be able to place the camera on a level surface and then just tell the camera "this is level", and the firmware will save this calibration.

I recently discovered my level is off by 3 segments, and I'm not willing to send the camera in for repair and lose the use of it for untold weeks/months for a simple problem I could fix myself, if the setting were available in the firmware.

I totally agree!!!

JohnBee · 01-08-2012, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by Dionisis_K

I totally agree!!!

There is a way to adjust AF via debug mode. Which is what Pentax support uses to adjust AF in most cases. However... as with all things, there is always the risk that you might botch your AF up good and have to send it in just the same.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/170874-k-5-debug-mode-now-accessible.html

zapp · 01-11-2012, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

You expect QC to do that?? Each copy of each lens is different, so it would be impossible to have such a job done by QC.

Each part has tolerances that can be tested. The focus fine adjustment solution is not the way QC needs to cope with that problem.

Mehlsack · 01-11-2012, 06:29 AM

How should QC be able to know what tolerances your Lens at home will have :S and how to compensate this?

sterretje · 01-11-2012, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by zapp

It is a pain in the butt taking 21 shots shots for checking the optimum adjustment position, multiply by the number of lenses and settings you are testing.

You're doing all 21 steps ? I'm quite sure you can do with about half of that.

turtleland · 01-11-2012, 01:41 PM

I would really like to get manual control of the audio recording level in the next firmware. Cannot be too difficult to implement!

zapp · 01-12-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by aurele

it's a good idea ... if you want Pentax to die.

Better them than me.

A three year cycle would mean that all K7 owners are up for a new camera...

zapp · 01-12-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by sterretje

You're doing all 21 steps ? I'm quite sure you can do with about half of that.

Yes, you can, but you want to check the images on a large screen - so it is easier to make 21 shots in a row than to go back and forth and back and forth.... Sure you can easily throw away at least 15 shots after you are done, ...

A wifi card could help, one shot and zoom the image appears on the screen...
Tethered mode sucking images from the SD card after they were shot....

RonHendriks1966 · 01-12-2012, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by zapp

Yes, you can, but you want to check the images on a large screen - so it is easier to make 21 shots in a row than to go back and forth and back and forth.... Sure you can easily throw away at least 15 shots after you are done, ...

A wifi card could help, one shot and zoom the image appears on the screen...
Tethered mode sucking images from the SD card after they were shot....

wel i start out with -10 -5 0 5 10 and look then where to adjust is about.

Frogfish · 01-12-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by zapp

You underestimate the problem. While depth of field may cover up for an inaccurate focus plane, the position of the depth of field area will be visibly off with any misaligned lens/camera. A camera like the K5 should not be designed to please kit lens users. Also, I assume that the camera is prone to misalignement rather than the lenses - at least when talking about serious misalignents.

I think you misunderstand how this 'misalignment' as you call it comes about (and no the postion may not be easily 'visibly off' as that would depend on perspective as well as F-stop).

There was a very interesting article written by one of the lens rental companies ( I think it was Lensrentals .. but I can't find the specific article now) in the USA on how a client would hire a lens and then send it back saying the lens had a problem front focusing .... but the next client they would send the lens out to (after checking and finding no issues with the lens) would find it absolutely perfect and the next client would say it back focuses ! This by the way applies to Canon, Nikon and every other manufacturer who's lenses they stock(ed).

The explanation is in the 'AF tolerance range' permitted in manufacture of both the lenses and cameras. A camera would pass the QC if it fell within a hypothetical 0 to +6 or 0 to -6 tolerance, a lens would pass if falling within the same tolerance (this is across all manufacturers). It is then immediately obvious what this means : a +6 camera and a +6 lens would take it outside the range of AF in-camera adjustment and the owner blaming either the lens or the camera. A +6 camera and -6 lens would give absolutely perfect focus .. and the owner believing he had a perfect example of that lens ! Sell that lens to someone else with a -6 camera and a dispute erupts on the 'damaged' lens being sold !

The vast majority of cameras/lens combinations though could be easily adjusted in-camera or slight mis-focus not an issue as under normal circumstances it wouldn't be noticed (e.g. camera +5 and lens -3 = +2 as normally easily covered by the DoF - irrespective of where the plane of focus lies.)

Mehlsack · 01-12-2012, 02:28 PM

I dont understand why the Body can't calculate the amount of correction needed

I mean they do use an algorithm to evaluate if the image is sharp in LV, why dont they write a small piece of FW which does this on his one ?

1. the software automaticaly takes a picture in LV for "maximal sharpness"
2. after that it will just "run" through the focus-correction form -100 to +100
3. compare the picture to the LV picture
4. voilá you should have your correction

Ok you would "waste" 200 actuations on the shutter, but seriously, for perfect, automated calibrated Lenses ?

Edit:
I tried to recalibrate the lenses on my own and i NEVER was able to see any difference between the shots ^^ Maybe from -10 to +10

KyPainter · 01-12-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Mehlsack

I dont understand why the Body can't calculate the amount of correction needed

When using a Tamron 70-200 F2.8, my K-5 won't focus with live view at all. The camera moves right through the point of best focus and then locks on a horribly blurry image, indicating that it has achieved focus lock. The K-5 will focus, typically pretty damn well, with the standard autofocus though.

I don't understand it, so can't explain it, but the method you suggested for K-5 self calibration wouldn't work for me... at least with this lens.

Mehlsack · 01-12-2012, 05:09 PM

Other people (including me) got this problem with "older" Sigma HSM Lenses, in Germany you are able to send them back to Sigma and they get a new Firmware or Lensrom or what so ever, i think this works for the tamrons as well, maybe you should just call the tamron support, i am quite sure they can help you with this.

And even it doenst work 100% of time, 80%-90% would be useful anyway :P

dlacouture · 01-13-2012, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by KyPainter

When using a Tamron 70-200 F2.8, my K-5 won't focus with live view at all. The camera moves right through the point of best focus and then locks on a horribly blurry image, indicating that it has achieved focus lock. The K-5 will focus, typically pretty damn well, with the standard autofocus though.

I don't understand it, so can't explain it, but the method you suggested for K-5 self calibration wouldn't work for me... at least with this lens.

I have the same problem!

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01-08-2012, 12:36 AM	#16
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	Back to the original topic, I want to be able to calibrate the digital level in-camera. For example, I should be able to place the camera on a level surface and then just tell the camera "this is level", and the firmware will save this calibration. I recently discovered my level is off by 3 segments, and I'm not willing to send the camera in for repair and lose the use of it for untold weeks/months for a simple problem I could fix myself, if the setting were available in the firmware.

01-08-2012, 03:22 AM	#17
Dionisis_K Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Athens - Greece Photos: Albums Posts: 249	Originally posted by cbope Back to the original topic, I want to be able to calibrate the digital level in-camera. For example, I should be able to place the camera on a level surface and then just tell the camera "this is level", and the firmware will save this calibration. I recently discovered my level is off by 3 segments, and I'm not willing to send the camera in for repair and lose the use of it for untold weeks/months for a simple problem I could fix myself, if the setting were available in the firmware. I totally agree!!!

01-08-2012, 03:30 AM	#18
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by Dionisis_K I totally agree!!! There is a way to adjust AF via debug mode. Which is what Pentax support uses to adjust AF in most cases. However... as with all things, there is always the risk that you might botch your AF up good and have to send it in just the same. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/170874-k-5-debug-mode-now-accessible.html

01-11-2012, 05:39 AM	#19
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by Clavius You expect QC to do that?? Each copy of each lens is different, so it would be impossible to have such a job done by QC. Each part has tolerances that can be tested. The focus fine adjustment solution is not the way QC needs to cope with that problem.

01-11-2012, 06:29 AM	#20
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	How should QC be able to know what tolerances your Lens at home will have :S and how to compensate this?

01-11-2012, 06:38 AM	#21
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by zapp It is a pain in the butt taking 21 shots shots for checking the optimum adjustment position, multiply by the number of lenses and settings you are testing. You're doing all 21 steps ? I'm quite sure you can do with about half of that.

01-11-2012, 01:41 PM	#22
turtleland New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 3	I would really like to get manual control of the audio recording level in the next firmware. Cannot be too difficult to implement!

01-12-2012, 09:55 AM	#23
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by aurele it's a good idea ... if you want Pentax to die. Better them than me. A three year cycle would mean that all K7 owners are up for a new camera...

01-12-2012, 09:59 AM	#24
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by sterretje You're doing all 21 steps ? I'm quite sure you can do with about half of that. Yes, you can, but you want to check the images on a large screen - so it is easier to make 21 shots in a row than to go back and forth and back and forth.... Sure you can easily throw away at least 15 shots after you are done, ... A wifi card could help, one shot and zoom the image appears on the screen... Tethered mode sucking images from the SD card after they were shot....

01-12-2012, 10:09 AM	#25
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by zapp Yes, you can, but you want to check the images on a large screen - so it is easier to make 21 shots in a row than to go back and forth and back and forth.... Sure you can easily throw away at least 15 shots after you are done, ... A wifi card could help, one shot and zoom the image appears on the screen... Tethered mode sucking images from the SD card after they were shot.... wel i start out with -10 -5 0 5 10 and look then where to adjust is about.

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01-12-2012, 10:57 AM	#26
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Originally posted by zapp You underestimate the problem. While depth of field may cover up for an inaccurate focus plane, the position of the depth of field area will be visibly off with any misaligned lens/camera. A camera like the K5 should not be designed to please kit lens users. Also, I assume that the camera is prone to misalignement rather than the lenses - at least when talking about serious misalignents. I think you misunderstand how this 'misalignment' as you call it comes about (and no the postion may not be easily 'visibly off' as that would depend on perspective as well as F-stop). There was a very interesting article written by one of the lens rental companies ( I think it was Lensrentals .. but I can't find the specific article now) in the USA on how a client would hire a lens and then send it back saying the lens had a problem front focusing .... but the next client they would send the lens out to (after checking and finding no issues with the lens) would find it absolutely perfect and the next client would say it back focuses ! This by the way applies to Canon, Nikon and every other manufacturer who's lenses they stock(ed). The explanation is in the 'AF tolerance range' permitted in manufacture of both the lenses and cameras. A camera would pass the QC if it fell within a hypothetical 0 to +6 or 0 to -6 tolerance, a lens would pass if falling within the same tolerance (this is across all manufacturers). It is then immediately obvious what this means : a +6 camera and a +6 lens would take it outside the range of AF in-camera adjustment and the owner blaming either the lens or the camera. A +6 camera and -6 lens would give absolutely perfect focus .. and the owner believing he had a perfect example of that lens ! Sell that lens to someone else with a -6 camera and a dispute erupts on the 'damaged' lens being sold ! The vast majority of cameras/lens combinations though could be easily adjusted in-camera or slight mis-focus not an issue as under normal circumstances it wouldn't be noticed (e.g. camera +5 and lens -3 = +2 as normally easily covered by the DoF - irrespective of where the plane of focus lies.)

01-12-2012, 02:28 PM	#27
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	I dont understand why the Body can't calculate the amount of correction needed I mean they do use an algorithm to evaluate if the image is sharp in LV, why dont they write a small piece of FW which does this on his one ? 1. the software automaticaly takes a picture in LV for "maximal sharpness" 2. after that it will just "run" through the focus-correction form -100 to +100 3. compare the picture to the LV picture 4. voilá you should have your correction Ok you would "waste" 200 actuations on the shutter, but seriously, for perfect, automated calibrated Lenses ? Edit: I tried to recalibrate the lenses on my own and i NEVER was able to see any difference between the shots ^^ Maybe from -10 to +10

01-12-2012, 03:31 PM	#28
KyPainter Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Owensboro, Kentucky Posts: 69	Originally posted by Mehlsack I dont understand why the Body can't calculate the amount of correction needed When using a Tamron 70-200 F2.8, my K-5 won't focus with live view at all. The camera moves right through the point of best focus and then locks on a horribly blurry image, indicating that it has achieved focus lock. The K-5 will focus, typically pretty damn well, with the standard autofocus though. I don't understand it, so can't explain it, but the method you suggested for K-5 self calibration wouldn't work for me... at least with this lens.

01-12-2012, 05:09 PM	#29
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	Other people (including me) got this problem with "older" Sigma HSM Lenses, in Germany you are able to send them back to Sigma and they get a new Firmware or Lensrom or what so ever, i think this works for the tamrons as well, maybe you should just call the tamron support, i am quite sure they can help you with this. And even it doenst work 100% of time, 80%-90% would be useful anyway :P

01-13-2012, 12:50 AM	#30
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Originally posted by KyPainter When using a Tamron 70-200 F2.8, my K-5 won't focus with live view at all. The camera moves right through the point of best focus and then locks on a horribly blurry image, indicating that it has achieved focus lock. The K-5 will focus, typically pretty damn well, with the standard autofocus though. I don't understand it, so can't explain it, but the method you suggested for K-5 self calibration wouldn't work for me... at least with this lens. I have the same problem!