Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-29-2011, 01:27 AM   #1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Firmware improvements

I feel like I am doing the job of Pentax quality control using the AF fine adjust function... It is a pain in the butt taking 21 shots shots for checking the optimum adjustment position, multiply by the number of lenses and settings you are testing. Please add a 21 shots fine adjustment function covering all steps from -10 to +10 assuming that the camera is fixed on a tripod. Pressing buttons repetetavily is tedious and may result in additional errors.

I like using the Hi position of the motor drive assuming that sometimes the second or third frame will produce less camera shake or cover a certain moment a little better than the first shot. This often works OK, but I end up with 5-8 frames unless I start thinking that I need to take the finger off the shutter relesae button before I even start clicking the button - this produces shake again. Well, let me limit the number of frames taken in Hi mode. In most cases image 5-999 will not show better results than images 1-3 or cover any other important moment in focus. Just as an additional option.

... anything else that may included in a firmware update ...? I feel that I need to spend so much time on fine tuning the K5, please do not introduce a new interesting camera within the next 2-3 years.

12-29-2011, 04:16 AM   #2
Pentaxian
aurele's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,974
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
I feel that I need to spend so much time on fine tuning the K5, please do not introduce a new interesting camera within the next 2-3 years.
it's a good idea ... if you want Pentax to die.
12-29-2011, 04:49 AM   #3
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
I feel like I am doing the job of Pentax quality control using the AF fine adjust function... It is a pain in the butt taking 21 shots shots for checking the optimum adjustment position, multiply by the number of lenses and settings you are testing. Please add a 21 shots fine adjustment function covering all steps from -10 to +10 assuming that the camera is fixed on a tripod. Pressing buttons repetetavily is tedious and may result in additional errors.

I like using the Hi position of the motor drive assuming that sometimes the second or third frame will produce less camera shake or cover a certain moment a little better than the first shot. This often works OK, but I end up with 5-8 frames unless I start thinking that I need to take the finger off the shutter relesae button before I even start clicking the button - this produces shake again. Well, let me limit the number of frames taken in Hi mode. In most cases image 5-999 will not show better results than images 1-3 or cover any other important moment in focus. Just as an additional option.
You expect QC to do that?? Each copy of each lens is different, so it would be impossible to have such a job done by QC.
12-29-2011, 05:36 AM - 1 Like   #4
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,926
One photo out of focus is a mistake, ten is an experiment, one hundred are a style.

Greetings

12-29-2011, 09:13 AM   #5
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mount Joy, PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 533
Perhaps some automation with user interaction?

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
I feel like I am doing the job of Pentax quality control using the AF fine adjust function... It is a pain in the butt taking 21 shots shots for checking the optimum adjustment position, multiply by the number of lenses and settings you are testing. Please add a 21 shots fine adjustment function covering all steps from -10 to +10 assuming that the camera is fixed on a tripod. Pressing buttons repetetavily is tedious and may result in additional errors.
I appreciate your frustration, and I can totally sympathize. However having the camera do the "hard work" might not work as well as you think.

When calibrating a lens it's ideal to de-focus the lens between test shots at the various settings. I know that's very tedious, but it's the only way to actually test the AF with the lens at the particular custom setting. Generally, though, you don't need to use all 21 individual positions for setting the AF fine adjustment. When I suspect a lens of front- or back-focusing I will typically test only the first five negative positions, null (the default position), and the first five positive positions. In other words, -5 through +5. If it's very obvious from the beginning the problem will fall in the back-focus or front-focus category then I will only test the positive or negative numbers, whatever the case may be. Sometimes I have had to do two tests because a lens appeared to be fine at +5, for example, but then I'm nervous that just maybe 6 or 7 would work even better. *shrug* Such is life.

Nevertheless, simply having the camera go bang-bang-bang down through all the settings automatically isn't going to work. The process requires careful handling or else you simply won't get reliable results.

I will say it would be nice if Pentax automated the testing sequence somewhat. Perhaps they could have a test sequence that involved the camera prompting the user to take a shot at one setting; once this occurs, the camera would switch the AF fine adjustment to the next setting, prompt the user to de-focus the lens, re-focus with auto-focus, and then fire another shot. Once the sequence is complete the camera would have gone down through the line of all available fine AF adjustment positions. Of course, this would mean users with out quick shift focusing would have to do a lot of switching between auto-focus and manual. Come to think of it, maybe the sequence can include automatically de-focusing the lens by the camera, as well. At any rate, it sure would beat going back and forth between menus and all that fiddly button pushing!
12-30-2011, 12:36 AM   #6
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 246
Suggestion: How about a spreadsheet of focus adjustment values?

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
I feel like I am doing the job of Pentax quality control using the AF fine adjust function... It is a pain in the butt taking 21 shots shots for checking the optimum adjustment position, multiply by the number of lenses and settings you are testing. Please add a 21 shots fine adjustment function covering all steps from -10 to +10 assuming that the camera is fixed on a tripod. Pressing buttons repetetavily is tedious and may result in additional errors.

I like using the Hi position of the motor drive assuming that sometimes the second or third frame will produce less camera shake or cover a certain moment a little better than the first shot. This often works OK, but I end up with 5-8 frames unless I start thinking that I need to take the finger off the shutter relesae button before I even start clicking the button - this produces shake again. Well, let me limit the number of frames taken in Hi mode. In most cases image 5-999 will not show better results than images 1-3 or cover any other important moment in focus. Just as an additional option.

... anything else that may included in a firmware update ...? I feel that I need to spend so much time on fine tuning the K5, please do not introduce a new interesting camera within the next 2-3 years.
This way you can quickly set focus adjustment values whenever you have a new camera or a new focusing screen. I use one lens as a benchmark and adjust the difference accordingly for all my lenses. So far I have been fortunate that my K-7 (just sold) and K-5 (either stock screen or new ee-S screen) do not have any focusing issues, so I just copied the same focus adjustment values over. Just a thought.

Peter

Last edited by Doanh; 12-30-2011 at 12:37 AM. Reason: typo
12-31-2011, 09:56 PM   #7
New Member
tessagree's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6
QuoteOriginally posted by Doanh Quote
This way you can quickly set focus adjustment values whenever you have a new camera or a new focusing screen. I use one lens as a benchmark and adjust the difference accordingly for all my lenses. So far I have been fortunate that my K-7 (just sold) and K-5 (either stock screen or new ee-S screen) do not have any focusing issues, so I just copied the same focus adjustment values over. Just a thought.

Peter
I have not noticed any focussing problems with the default settings of my k5 but wonder should I be concerned ?
01-01-2012, 12:05 AM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,821
QuoteOriginally posted by tessagree Quote
I have not noticed any focussing problems with the default settings of my k5 but wonder should I be concerned ?
The k-5 (and other brand's cameras of this level) allow you to fine tune the AF for each lens. The theory being that each lens may have a slight difference from the one before it on the production line. With emphasis on the slight. If you are using the kit lens I doubt you could see any difference unless something is really wrong. If you are using a fast lens like for example the FA 50mm f/1.4 then 'tuning' it to your camera may result in better AF results. This is because the depth of focus on a fast lens like the f/1.4 is extremely small and it can benefit from micro-adjustment.

So nothing here is indicative of any problems only the normal micro-adjustment of lens to camera. Unless you have a very fast lens (f/2.8 or faster) I would not worry about it overmuch.

01-01-2012, 04:18 AM   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Doanh Quote
This way you can quickly set focus adjustment values whenever you have a new camera or a new focusing screen. I use one lens as a benchmark and adjust the difference accordingly for all my lenses. So far I have been fortunate that my K-7 (just sold) and K-5 (either stock screen or new ee-S screen) do not have any focusing issues, so I just copied the same focus adjustment values over. Just a thought.

Peter
AF fine adjustment does not adjust the focus as seen on the focusing screen. Two different things, both need to be just right.
01-01-2012, 04:50 AM   #10
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,395
I used this technique: AF microadjustment for the 1Ds mark III, 1D Mk3, 5D Mk2, 7D to fine tune my auto focus. It is relatively quick and ninety percent of my lenses didn't need adjustment.
01-01-2012, 08:09 PM   #11
New Member
tessagree's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6
will look into this thanks!

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
The k-5 (and other brand's cameras of this level) allow you to fine tune the AF for each lens. The theory being that each lens may have a slight difference from the one before it on the production line. With emphasis on the slight. If you are using the kit lens I doubt you could see any difference unless something is really wrong. If you are using a fast lens like for example the FA 50mm f/1.4 then 'tuning' it to your camera may result in better AF results. This is because the depth of focus on a fast lens like the f/1.4 is extremely small and it can benefit from micro-adjustment.

So nothing here is indicative of any problems only the normal micro-adjustment of lens to camera. Unless you have a very fast lens (f/2.8 or faster) I would not worry about it overmuch.
I will have to look into this as I have quite a few lenses -40mm pancake, sigma f2.8 -f4.5 as well as 150 - 500 mm and an older 50mm f1.4!
01-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #12
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Original Poster
Let me add some ideas:

Put camera's serial number in exif file as well as focus distance (may require hardware changes in future lenses.
01-06-2012, 01:59 PM - 1 Like   #13
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
The k-5 (and other brand's cameras of this level) allow you to fine tune the AF for each lens. The theory being that each lens may have a slight difference from the one before it on the production line. With emphasis on the slight. If you are using the kit lens I doubt you could see any difference unless something is really wrong. If you are using a fast lens like for example the FA 50mm f/1.4 then 'tuning' it to your camera may result in better AF results. This is because the depth of focus on a fast lens like the f/1.4 is extremely small and it can benefit from micro-adjustment.

So nothing here is indicative of any problems only the normal micro-adjustment of lens to camera. Unless you have a very fast lens (f/2.8 or faster) I would not worry about it overmuch.
You underestimate the problem. While depth of field may cover up for an inaccurate focus plane, the position of the depth of field area will be visibly off with any misaligned lens/camera. A camera like the K5 should not be designed to please kit lens users. Also, I assume that the camera is prone to misalignement rather than the lenses - at least when talking about serious misalignents.
01-06-2012, 03:40 PM   #14
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Each copy of each lens is different,
And each body is different too, within very subtle engineering tolerances. Hence each lens and body pair may be different.

Furthermore, as others have demonstrated (like the camera lens rental guy) various lenses can have significant variation in their tolerances (especially zooms) due to various factors, as may camera bodies.

So expecting any camera manufacturer to nail the problem forever out of the factory is not realistic.

Last edited by rawr; 01-06-2012 at 03:47 PM.
01-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #15
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,400
[deleted]

Last edited by beholder3; 08-12-2013 at 01:51 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
adjustment, button, camera, dslr, firmware, frames, k-5, k-5 ii, k-5 iis, k5, pentax k-5, position
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-x Firmware 1.02 dragra Pentax DSLR Discussion 44 05-02-2011 10:14 PM
K-X new Firmware 1.01.00.10 Kenn100D Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 03-14-2011 05:21 PM
Firmware 1.03 K7er Pentax DSLR Discussion 44 02-25-2010 04:07 PM
Without FF, improvements you want. RonMexico Pentax DSLR Discussion 48 01-08-2010 09:13 PM
Which Improvements to the Next Generation Pentax's benjikan Pentax DSLR Discussion 33 04-14-2007 12:17 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:47 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top