K-5 - banding & noise issues in images

Jenphotographs · 12-29-2011, 05:54 PM

Is this user error (mine) or is there a problem with my camera? I edit my images very lightly, if at all, and still see banding in my images.

This is my usual process: I shoot in Raw (DNG). I edit primarily in RAW, where possible. Then open to edit further if necessary using layers (usually not), save a copy as PSD. Then for web or other usage, save-as jpg.

These steps hadn't given me any problems until I upgraded from my k10d to k5. I contacted Pentax, but I'm basically getting pooh-pooh'ed by the rep. Appreciate your thoughts on this.

2nd pic is 100% crop.

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**Ash** · 12-29-2011, 06:11 PM

Eww. Jen! That's a painful sight.
Let me first allay your concerns here - there is no banding in your image; it usually occurs at high ISO with inadequate exposures when detail is attempted to be 'lifted up' in PP, very obvious in shadow areas, but more obvious in the K10D/K20D/K-7.

Secondly, I see the 'noise' and 'banding' you indicate in your crop image, it looks like induced colour noise and pixellation as a result of post-processing. It's not hard to create this with simple contrast/colour manipulations. The only way to ensure this doesn't occur is to get exposures right in camera and not have to do much in the way of colour adjustments.

**Ash** · 12-29-2011, 06:13 PM

I didn't mention that the image would have turned out better if the girl's face was completely in focus.

Jenphotographs · 12-29-2011, 06:21 PM

ISO was 100. Exposure was correct and not adjusted in postprocess. The only PP I did was minor tweak to the girl's face (cheeks, mainly) to reduce redness and clone out the rubberband holding the mousetrap in place.

Yes, image would be better if it was in focus, heh.
I guess I'm just frustrated because I was able to edit the crap outta my k10d images, and I feel like I can't do that with the k5 images without seeing pixelation and banding.

Edited to add: banding isn't really evident here, but if you look closely on left, there are bands. I've got other images where it's much more obvious.

Last edited by Jenphotographs; 12-29-2011 at 06:34 PM. Reason: adding a thought.

Oog · 12-29-2011, 06:35 PM

Your first image as it appears on this forum is only 74.6 kb, suggesting that it has been compressed to less than 100% quality for a 1024 x 678 JPEG.

**Ash** · 12-29-2011, 06:39 PM

Jen, those 'bands' are the same pixellated effect I see on the other side - it is possible that we're seeing this as a result of JPEG compression artefacts but I'm assuming you also see this in your full-size images saved at the top quality setting.

You can still get colour manipulation artefacts at ISO 100, but it is usually seen in shadow areas and after boosting exposure in PP. In your case, I cannot explain the phenomenon other than the possibility of the JPEG being saved not at high enough quality to give a smoother colour gradation.

Jenphotographs · 12-29-2011, 06:45 PM

Don't I feel stupid. I think you guys are right. I saved the jpg at a higher quality, and the banding is mostly gone; I haven't checked all of my "problem" images yet though.

It's still a little pixely in the ones that are more processed, but that comes with the territory.

Last edited by Jenphotographs; 12-29-2011 at 07:25 PM.

an3ony · 12-30-2011, 09:19 AM

Hey, Just wanted to link to another thread that addressed the banding issue. Its pretty helpful or ignore if you've already covered the issue; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photo-critique/168851-landscape-last-flight-evening.html

great image BTW!

Jenphotographs · 12-30-2011, 11:44 PM

Thank you on both counts!

Anvh · 12-31-2011, 12:54 AM

Here some homework for you

It isn't banding but posterization.
Banding noise is always straight line, not curved like this.

Digital Camera Image Noise: Concept and Types

Image Posterization

Glad it was an image quality issue and you got it sorted.

Usuqa · 12-31-2011, 04:59 AM

Try editing you images in photoshop as 16bit as that should help solve any posterization, the only down side is chewing through your ram :P.

RGold · 01-25-2012, 12:06 AM

This is probably caused by shadow correction set to med or high. I saw same thing and I set shadow correction to low and issue gone.

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12-29-2011, 06:11 PM	#2
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Eww. Jen! That's a painful sight. Let me first allay your concerns here - there is no banding in your image; it usually occurs at high ISO with inadequate exposures when detail is attempted to be 'lifted up' in PP, very obvious in shadow areas, but more obvious in the K10D/K20D/K-7. Secondly, I see the 'noise' and 'banding' you indicate in your crop image, it looks like induced colour noise and pixellation as a result of post-processing. It's not hard to create this with simple contrast/colour manipulations. The only way to ensure this doesn't occur is to get exposures right in camera and not have to do much in the way of colour adjustments.

12-29-2011, 06:13 PM	#3
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	I didn't mention that the image would have turned out better if the girl's face was completely in focus.

12-29-2011, 06:21 PM	#4
Jenphotographs New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 6 Original Poster	ISO was 100. Exposure was correct and not adjusted in postprocess. The only PP I did was minor tweak to the girl's face (cheeks, mainly) to reduce redness and clone out the rubberband holding the mousetrap in place. Yes, image would be better if it was in focus, heh. I guess I'm just frustrated because I was able to edit the crap outta my k10d images, and I feel like I can't do that with the k5 images without seeing pixelation and banding. Edited to add: banding isn't really evident here, but if you look closely on left, there are bands. I've got other images where it's much more obvious. Last edited by Jenphotographs; 12-29-2011 at 06:34 PM. Reason: adding a thought.

12-29-2011, 06:35 PM	#5
Oog Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 85	Your first image as it appears on this forum is only 74.6 kb, suggesting that it has been compressed to less than 100% quality for a 1024 x 678 JPEG.

12-29-2011, 06:39 PM	#6
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Jen, those 'bands' are the same pixellated effect I see on the other side - it is possible that we're seeing this as a result of JPEG compression artefacts but I'm assuming you also see this in your full-size images saved at the top quality setting. You can still get colour manipulation artefacts at ISO 100, but it is usually seen in shadow areas and after boosting exposure in PP. In your case, I cannot explain the phenomenon other than the possibility of the JPEG being saved not at high enough quality to give a smoother colour gradation.

12-29-2011, 06:45 PM	#7
Jenphotographs New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 6 Original Poster	Don't I feel stupid. I think you guys are right. I saved the jpg at a higher quality, and the banding is mostly gone; I haven't checked all of my "problem" images yet though. It's still a little pixely in the ones that are more processed, but that comes with the territory. Last edited by Jenphotographs; 12-29-2011 at 07:25 PM.

12-30-2011, 09:19 AM	#8
an3ony Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Saugus, MA Posts: 49	Hey, Just wanted to link to another thread that addressed the banding issue. Its pretty helpful or ignore if you've already covered the issue; https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photo-critique/168851-landscape-last-flight-evening.html great image BTW!

12-30-2011, 11:44 PM	#9
Jenphotographs New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 6 Original Poster	Thank you on both counts!

12-31-2011, 12:54 AM	#10
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Here some homework for you It isn't banding but posterization. Banding noise is always straight line, not curved like this. Digital Camera Image Noise: Concept and Types Image Posterization Glad it was an image quality issue and you got it sorted.

12-31-2011, 04:59 AM	#11
Usuqa Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland Photos: Gallery Posts: 348	Try editing you images in photoshop as 16bit as that should help solve any posterization, the only down side is chewing through your ram :P.

01-25-2012, 12:06 AM	#12
RGold Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 26	This is probably caused by shadow correction set to med or high. I saw same thing and I set shadow correction to low and issue gone.