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06-02-2012, 08:38 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Welfl Quote
I would be so much more comfortable with my decision to purchase a K-5 if I knew that Pentax is planning to give it focus-peaking capabilities -- or not. If not, then please let us know now! I cannot imagine why they would consider this to be top-secret information. Don't they realize they would sell even more K-5s if they announce that they are going to add this feature?
Pentax does not has a habit to add features like this to their current line.
When i had the K10D i was jealous about the AF adjustments the k20D had for example...

At most the will add functionality like support to SDXC and SDHC cards also the ability to change ISO with button on the K10D is a nice example but for the rest...


ps. de focus peaking is purely software, if you want focus peaking you can have it actually on the K5.
You need a field monitor that uses he HDMI connection, most of them even have different versions and you can focus peak during video

What focus peaking does is basically add halos to high contrast areas, it's nothing more then that.


just an example.



Last edited by Anvh; 06-02-2012 at 08:49 PM.
06-03-2012, 07:14 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
What focus peaking does is basically add halos to high contrast areas, it's nothing more then that.
I disagree.

While your statement has some truth in it and some implementations may be just that, focus peaking in general though, can be as sophisticated as contrast AF can be a performer.

Both are basically software, I agree. But the level of sophistication which two given algorithms differ in can be quite substantial.

E.g., a good focus peaking algorithm may analyze entire regions, determine their respective level of contrast which may be indicative for focus and false color code pixels which pass that threshold. And it could include a gauge for overall focus quality per region rather than just highlight pixels.


btw. We cannot exclude the possibility that the K-5 lacks the horse power to run the K-01 focus peaking algorithm. Their CPUs do differ. No doubt the K-5 could run some algorithm, but who would develop it?

Last edited by falconeye; 06-03-2012 at 07:20 AM.
06-03-2012, 07:40 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I think that you made a lot of good points but it is difficult to draw the conclusion that all of the price difference went towards Pentax profits. For example, parts supplier prices might have dropped due to economies of scale.
I agree with you in theory (since I have no facts), but I'm willing to bet that a lot of the parts in the K-5 are standard parts that were and are being used in many other cameras, and not just Pentax cameras; therefore, aside from the sensor itself, they probably weren't all that rare or all that new when the K-5 first went on the market. [Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about, although I think my instincts aren't that far off base. ]

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I give kudos to PRICL for discounting the K-5 along its life cycle. I haven't seen anything similar for comparable cameras like the Canon 7D.
I completely agree, but they probably have no choice since the K-30 has everything that many of us wanted in the the K-5 (except focus peaking in video mode, which is just plain nonsensical and petty, and a quieter shutter). Also, as I was going to write when I first commented on this topic two months ago (but then burned out), Pentax-Ricoh may soon make it slightly difficult to sell their remaining stock of K-5s if the K-r's replacement has more to offer than the K-5. And it does have more to offer.

I can assure you that the only way I would buy a K-5 now (over the K-30) is if the price dropped to about $500 (give or take $100), and that's never going to happen. Even then I would feel extremely disappointed that I am going to be using a camera for the next many years (yes, many years) that doesn't have the features I want most). I suspect there are at least a few other Pentax enthusiasts who may feel the same way.
06-03-2012, 08:00 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
btw. We cannot exclude the possibility that the K-5 lacks the horse power to run the K-01 focus peaking algorithm. Their CPUs do differ. No doubt the K-5 could run some algorithm, but who would develop it?
If a simple field monitor can do it then why can't the K5 with his contrast focus do it?
Like you say contrast focus come pretty close because they both look at the contrast.

06-03-2012, 08:01 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Welfl Quote
I can assure you that the only way I would buy a K-5 now (over the K-30) is if the price dropped to about $500 (give or take $100), and that's never going to happen. Even then I would feel extremely disappointed that I am going to be using a camera for the next many years (yes, many years) that doesn't have the features I want most). I suspect there are at least a few other Pentax enthusiasts who may feel the same way.
The K5 is still the better camera if you shoot RAW.
06-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Welfl Quote
...I completely agree, but they probably have no choice since the K-30 has everything that many of us wanted in the the K-5 ...Pentax-Ricoh may soon make it slightly difficult to sell their remaining stock of K-5s if the K-r's replacement has more to offer than the K-5. And it does have more to offer...
PRICL was offering a substantial rebate on the K-5 months before the K-30 was announced. In addition retailers were offering lower than the original MSRP for quite a long time before that. Nothing even remotely similar from Canon with 7D pricing AFAIK. IMHO PRICL will have no issues selling the remaining stock of K-5's. (I also think that when the PRICL official commented that there would be 4 Pentax dSLR's this year they were including the K-5. It might just stay in production for most of the year, since the K-01 and K-30 share many similar components.) It is a classic, a performer, and a value. I also believe that the K-30 is the K-r replacement and for as many similarities it has to the K-5, there are probably as many differences. If you are happy with a K-30 as opposed to a K-5 that is great. I am good with my K-5 and K-r. They pretty much do everything that I need them to do, and they might be the last APS-c dSLR's that I will own.
06-03-2012, 08:55 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
Need to add my 2cents, I, too, have been frustrated by the photo industry mentality as something expousing elitism as a high value. [...]
Exactly.

QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
Cars have not come down in price so much either. [...]
Even though most American automobiles are now manufactured by foreign laborers who earn about fifty times less than their American counterparts did. By comparison, some Japanese automobiles are manufactured in the southern U.S., where the labor costs are much higher than they are in those foreign countries yet nowhere near as insanely high as they were in Detroit. Yet the prices of the Japanese automobiles are very roughly the same as those foreign-manufactured American automobiles. It shows just how arbitrary it all is.

QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
And cars are certainly promoted with a lot of sexy pizzazz. There's a lot of money at stake.
Exactly.

QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
I have liked the idea of getting a K-5 for a while now but the more I see how much money goes into spending for photo gear, the more I am turned off. Maybe it is time for me to spend more time and effort investing in human relationships instead of messing with taking pictures with expensive hardware and the creative time spent in software. Just my own thoughts. I can understand totally if some would disagree with me, I have been wrestling with this very topic for the last few weeks lately.
You have hit close to the heart of my own dilemma. [Warning: Don't continue reading this paragraph if you don't like downers.] It has been plaguing me since I first contemplated moving up to a DSLR from my trusty point-and-shoot. Very shortly after that I discovered Pentax DSLRs -- and their unique backward compatibility with all previous K-mount lenses -- in about January 2011 (backward compatibility was what had prompted me to start my search in the first place, because I was told it wasn't possible without adapters and drawbacks, and I wanted to see if I could prove that person wrong). It was shortly thereafter that I discovered the K-5. Its Sony sensor AND Pentax's supporting technology were so "magical" to me (I studied K-5 pics on PentaxForums and Flickr extensively) that every other DSLR suddenly seemed weak by comparison (even the Nikon D7000 seemed not quite as good). However, the price of the K-5 at that time ($1,510 at Amazon) was beyond ridiculous by my standards. Even $1,199 and $999 for competing cameras seemed ridiculously high to a newcomer like me. My Point: When you combine all of that with the fact that I really don't have anything meaningful or memorable to photograph anymore; and also with the fact that a few billion people have already photographed seemingly every square inch of non-restricted earth and have posted the results on the internet, what is the point of my buying an expensive camera just so that I can (once again) become lost in that massive crowd? At most, I will use it to rephotograph the same old generic (but beautiful) scenes that I've already photographed too many times before. Some mornings I wake up sincerely wondering how I could have been so silly as to want to spend $999 on a K-5 or $900 on a K-30 when I have nothing meaningful or memorable to photograph. The next morning I will wake up convinced that I need to buy one (a K-30 now) and have fun with it before (and after?) the economy finally (theoretically?) goes completely down the toilet.

QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
It is hard to answer but it would help a lot to re-assure people like me who need to see the value of continued involvement in BUYING if Ricoh/Pentax would be much more responsive with simple updates like that proposed here for firmware.
Once again I say, "Exactly."

QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
It might also help to End the Fed and bring back Constitutional Money of some sort (gold-backed gov't bonds, for instance).....
You read my mind! I was hoping someone would, sooner or later.

Last edited by Welfl; 06-03-2012 at 09:35 AM.
06-03-2012, 09:02 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
ps. de focus peaking is purely software
I know. I agreed with your original comment on this topic (in this same thread) two months ago (here). In that comment I included this link: Sony Firmware Update Brings Peaking To NEX-3 and NEX-5.

06-03-2012, 09:07 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
The K5 is still the better camera if you shoot RAW.
I know. That's one of the primary things that disappoints me about the K-30. I had forgotten about that until you mentioned it. You can see the differences, slight though they may be, between the 12-bit RAW images of the K-01 and the 14-bit RAW images of the K-5. The same will probably be true of the K-30.

Last edited by Welfl; 06-03-2012 at 09:38 AM.
06-03-2012, 09:33 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
PRICL was offering a substantial rebate on the K-5 months before the K-30 was announced.
I know (although "substantial" is a relative term). I was about ready to cave in and buy one during that rebate period, but I knew that would ensure that the K-r's replacement would have exactly what I want, so I held off. Besides, we all knew the K-5's $999 rebates were the result of soon-to-be announced new models.

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
In addition retailers were offering lower than the original MSRP for quite a long time before that. Nothing even remotely similar from Canon with 7D pricing AFAIK.
Once again, I agree, but I didn't want to buy one from a NON-official Pentax reseller.

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
IMHO PRICL will have no issues selling the remaining stock of K-5's.
I'm sure you are right. My point, which I did not make clear, is that K-5 sales may be slower than they would otherwise be without the competition of the K-30; and they might be a bit slower than they would otherwise be if Pentax were to upgrade the K-5 in one or two ways via a firmware update.

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
(I also think that when the PRICL official commented that there would be 4 Pentax dSLR's this year they were including the K-5. It might just stay in production for most of the year...
That's a very reasonable theory -- and all the more reason to spice it up (aka "modernize" it) a little to fit the times.

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I also believe that the K-30 is the K-r replacement and for as many similarities it has to the K-5, there are probably as many differences.
True (12-bit RAW vs 14-bit RAW, as Anvh reminded me, no audio input, only a mono mic to support that excellent video quality, no focus peaking in video, a louder shutter, no top LCD, etc.), but, so far, the similarities (so to speak) slightly outweigh the differences, as far as what I want. I'm clearly not alone in this sentiment (for whatever that is worth ).

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
I am good with my K-5 and K-r. They pretty much do everything that I need them to do, and they might be the last APS-c dSLR's that I will own.
If and when I buy a DSLR, it will probably be the only one I ever own (where is the "sardonic" emoticon when you need one?)

Last edited by Welfl; 06-03-2012 at 09:40 AM.
06-03-2012, 09:34 AM   #56
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I do not use LV on K5 ( K7 and KX) so focus peaking not relevant to me but on...
the Q it would be very useful
06-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Welfl Quote
I know. That's one of the primary things that disappoints me about the K-30. I had forgotten about that until you mentioned it. You can see the differences, slight though they may be, between the 12-bit RAW images of the K-01 and the 14-bit RAW images of the K-5. The same will probably be true of the K-30.
Also the buffer is smaller for RAW, it seems the prime processor is tweaked to be fast with jpeg and video, that's why i'm off opnion that this a processor specially aimed for the entry market and that we will see a different processor in the "pro" segment.
06-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Welfl Quote
True (12-bit RAW vs 14-bit RAW, as Anvh reminded me, no audio input, only a mono mic to support that excellent video quality, no focus peaking in video, a louder shutter, no top LCD, etc.), but, so far, the similarities (so to speak) slightly outweigh the differences, as far as what I want. I'm clearly not alone in this sentiment (for whatever that is worth ).
Actually someone here pointed to a K-01 video and he actually said it isn't better then the K5 quality...
06-03-2012, 10:05 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Actually someone here pointed to a K-01 video and he actually said it isn't better then the K5 quality...
I wasn't referring to the quality of the video in each of the cameras. I was referring to the K-30's video format and its multiple shooting speeds (frames per second) and sizes (1080p and 720p). I've seen at least one outstanding K-5 video on Vimeo (of a cyclist riding on a highway in Colorado), but I can't find it now.

When I wrote: "only a mono mic to support that excellent video quality," my point was (is) that Pentax is providing K-30 users with a beautiful moving image, but they are crippling it with low-quality audio. Even worse, they are crippling those beautiful moving images by not providing focus peaking. It would be like a gun manufacturer selling rifles without the sights you need to aim them accurately (this is just an example, not a political/social comment).

Of course, this is the K-5 forum, so I shouldn't be discussing the K-30 too much here.

Last edited by Welfl; 06-03-2012 at 10:24 AM.
06-03-2012, 10:34 AM   #60
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From what i know the MJPEG is better then h.264 when it comes to quality and editing.
The only thing the K30 has going for is the 5 frames more in 1080p and manual controls but that's it.

For audio, point me to a DSLR that record audio cleanly, only one that does a decent job is the 5D markIII the only one i know off where you can monitor your audio.
For the rest if you want a good audio i would simply suggest a external recorder, it provides you with more control, better quality and you can monitor your sound.
The biggest thing that cripples the video function for the K30 is not having HDMI, it means you can't connect an external field monitor or EVF,

As for good K5 videos.

this a k7 video.
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