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02-11-2012, 05:11 AM   #1
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jpeg only colour shift

I normally use all my bodies in raw and recently had to set up for a client who specifically wanted some head/shoulder shots to show off her hair.
So I dug out my foam head and a hair piece to test the lighting set up I had in mind.
For speed sake I set my k5 to jpeg so I could quickly check the results just by plugging in the card and using windows to view the results.
the results were a bit odd, the hair colour on the camera LCD looked correct but on the PC looked to have auburn tint [the hair piece is a mousy blond]
I turned off highlights and shadows , made sure the natural setting was on and tried again, with same result.
I changed back to raw/jpeg and the LCD still looks the same [no surprise there] but when viewed in LR the raw hair colour is correct and the jpeg is still wrong.
it's not a problem , really as i don't use jpeg normally but I just wonder what is causing it.
Oh yes, also, creating a jpeg from the raw either in Lr or PS or using jpeg from raw utility, all give a jpeg with the correct hair colour as well. it is only the jpeg from the camera that is wrong.
I also double checked the natural setting to make sure it was centred and not off set at all.
Any ideas any one?

02-11-2012, 05:18 AM   #2
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When you shoot jpeg the camera is making all the adjustments as it converts from the original Raw file from the sensor, you can alter the way it does this in camera so it mimics the settings you have in your Raw converter usually by altering saturation, contrast and colour, but it's a hit and miss affair. It's probably quicker just to use your normal Raw workflow, then you know what your going to get.

Don't forget that jpeg 'dumps' all the data that won't fit inside the 8bit jpeg container so it's bound to look different.

Chris
02-11-2012, 05:25 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
When you shoot jpeg the camera is making all the adjustments as it converts from the original Raw file from the sensor, you can alter the way it does this in camera so it mimics the settings you have in your Raw converter usually by altering saturation, contrast and colour, but it's a hit and miss affair. It's probably quicker just to use your normal Raw workflow, then you know what your going to get.

Don't forget that jpeg 'dumps' all the data that won't fit inside the 8bit jpeg container so it's bound to look different.

Chris
yes sure but that does not explain the in camera jpeg converter giving a different and incorrect result compaired to 3 other software converters that convert the same raw correctly.
02-11-2012, 06:05 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
yes sure but that does not explain the in camera jpeg converter giving a different and incorrect result compaired to 3 other software converters that convert the same raw correctly.
What color space do you have set, this is probably the issue

02-11-2012, 06:38 AM   #5
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Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. Save a Raw from LR or PS as a jpeg then compare that with the jpeg conversion of the same raw image from the camera. Any differences you see are being applied in the in camera conversion settings.

Chris
02-11-2012, 07:05 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
What color space do you have set, this is probably the issue
makes no difference forgot to mention that in the first post
02-11-2012, 07:21 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. Save a Raw from LR or PS as a jpeg then compare that with the jpeg conversion of the same raw image from the camera. Any differences you see are being applied in the in camera conversion settings.

Chris
thats the whole point of my post, why is the in camera conversion doing this colour shift?
btw I have tested this with my K10d and the raw/jpeg combination when viewed in LR look the same unlike the k5 which when viewed in Lr the raw is much the same as the K10d raw but the k5 jpeg has this auburn tint which the K10d jpeg does not.
for some reason the k5 is shifting the colour, the effect is the same as can be achieved in any mode by shifting the hue toward red
02-11-2012, 08:01 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJ Quote
Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg.
They aren't working in aRGB but in prophoto RGB, that's even a larger colour gamut.

02-11-2012, 08:02 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
thats the whole point of my post, why is the in camera conversion doing this colour shift?
btw I have tested this with my K10d and the raw/jpeg combination when viewed in LR look the same unlike the k5 which when viewed in Lr the raw is much the same as the K10d raw but the k5 jpeg has this auburn tint which the K10d jpeg does not.
for some reason the k5 is shifting the colour, the effect is the same as can be achieved in any mode by shifting the hue toward red
In LR what kind of colour profile do you use, Adobe one or the embeded one?
02-11-2012, 08:27 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
In LR what kind of colour profile do you use, Adobe one or the embeded one?
makes no difference
02-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
makes no difference
Yes it does, certainly in the greens and reds just try it.
02-11-2012, 10:51 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
[...] the natural setting [...]
That's why. The 'Natural' setting applies a color curve. Is there a 'Neutral' setting?
02-11-2012, 11:46 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Yes it does, certainly in the greens and reds just try it.
I ment it does not stop or affect the faulty tint as previously explained
02-11-2012, 11:55 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rhodopsin Quote
That's why. The 'Natural' setting applies a color curve. Is there a 'Neutral' setting?
you have lost me please explain further?
there are as I'm sure you know various settings than can be utilised ranging from bright to b/w . in this lot is a neutral/natural setting which its self has all its sliders centred. that is what the camera was set to when this in camera jpeg conversion applies the tint.
02-11-2012, 12:20 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
you have lost me please explain further?
there are as I'm sure you know various settings than can be utilised ranging from bright to b/w . in this lot is a neutral/natural setting which its self has all its sliders centred. that is what the camera was set to when this in camera jpeg conversion applies the tint.
I should have written color 'profile' not color 'curve'. The color profile 'Natural' is applied during raw conversion to jpeg, altering the raw colors according to a profile algorithm. Use the Pentax raw conversion software which has the color profile settings, choose 'Natural' and you'll see the same color-shift as the camera gives.
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