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02-16-2012, 05:35 PM   #16
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"...But i am lazy to switch a lot of parameters every time when i have to use camera. "

Which is wy the K-5 has USER modes. Read up on them in the manual.

Jack

02-16-2012, 07:34 PM   #17
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Spot Meter

QuoteOriginally posted by kluvi Quote
HI!
I am happy owner of K-5 for 3 monts.
But now I've noticed that when shooting on the snow heavily overexposes. I do not use any exposure compensation, using standard settings, AE Point is not linked to the AF, using multisegment metering. Photo on the snow is just OK, but when the shot contains a strip of forest, exposure is rapidly increasing. Sometimes just a shift of 5% of the image and already image is shifted by 1 or more Ev. Metering in normal conditions, gray table, comparing with flash/luxmeter is OK. Itīs not coincidence, i have a lot of such photos.
I am confused...i have to check histogram/overburns after taking every shot. But often i have no possibility to check it immediately and i find such unusable photos after arriving to home.
I am an experienced user of SLR (MZ-5n analog) and I never noticed such problems.


Attachments: first pic is overexposed (1/250 F5.6) and second pic is appropriate (1/320 7.1)it is exactly 1Ev darker).
I have more such photos for examination. And much more overexposed..
The K5 does odd things with bright areas sometimes. I am convinced that the bounce flash overexposure is also related to bright areas in the scene.

Regardless, you should be able to spot meter on white, add +1.5 stops and be pretty close. This is a zone system sort of short cut that also works with black, except you spot on black and subtract about 1.5 stops. You will need to pick an area to spot meter on that is pretty bright but not a specular highlight.

I find that some lenses are a bit more or less than 1.5 stops when spot metering this way, but since you cannot exceed 255 on the highlight end, you have to expose for the highlights (snow) and let the shadows or dark areas fall wherever they fall. The wide DR of the K5 is your friend here as you will be able to bring up the dark areas in PP without showing too much noise.

Lastly, in the bright sun there will be some specular highlights off the snow that you cannot hope to keep from over-exposing without under-exposing most of the remainder of the scene. Snow glints and sparkles, so I think that is fine.

Oh, with this much scene DR I would definitely always shoot RAW so you can take advantage of that little bit of extra highlight room should things be a little over-exposed.

Try it and see if it works for you.

Ray
02-17-2012, 01:30 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by alohadave Quote
Negative film is very forgiving to shoot. A lot of sins could be hidden in developing and printing.

Digital is like slide film, once you clip the highlights, they are gone.
I used slides film....
02-17-2012, 01:32 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
"...But i am lazy to switch a lot of parameters every time when i have to use camera. "

Which is wy the K-5 has USER modes. Read up on them in the manual.

Jack
I know, but it is still relied on my memory :-(
I have to learn to live with it...

02-17-2012, 01:48 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
Regardless, you should be able to spot meter on white, add +1.5 stops and be pretty close. This is a zone system sort of short cut that also works with black, except you spot on black and subtract about 1.5 stops. You will need to pick an area to spot meter on that is pretty bright but not a specular highlight.

Oh, with this much scene DR I would definitely always shoot RAW so you can take advantage of that little bit of extra highlight room should things be a little over-exposed.
Ray
Yes, i know that possibilities. I used exposition for the highlights on SLR too.
But we are speaking about snapshots from trip, not intended for exhibiton, but for grandmom. I should use bigger part of my brain when shooting snapshots or to use compact camera (which have no such problems).
I have had too much expectation about K-5...
But thatīs my common problem.
Thanks for advices
02-17-2012, 08:19 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by kluvi Quote
Yes, i know that possibilities. I used exposition for the highlights on SLR too.
But we are speaking about snapshots from trip, not intended for exhibiton, but for grandmom. I should use bigger part of my brain when shooting snapshots or to use compact camera (which have no such problems).
I have had too much expectation about K-5...
But thatīs my common problem.
Thanks for advices
If you think that you can use a dslr as a compact then you simply had it wrong, the k5 isn't made to be used like that.
I know it sound strange but its true.

Btw the person in the photo is well lit, I think that's more important for your grandma then that she would say the photo is bad because the snow is burned out
02-18-2012, 01:50 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by kluvi Quote
I know, but it is still relied on my memory :-(
I have to learn to live with it...
Perhaps they should automatically link a user mode to ambient temperature? If its -5 deg C then it should trigger a Snow & Ice adjustment.
02-25-2012, 02:29 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Col Quote
Perhaps they should automatically link a user mode to ambient temperature? If its -5 deg C then it should trigger a Snow & Ice adjustment.
:-p
It's really stupid that it is capable to take snapshots on snow ONLY in manual mode.... or do you think different?


02-25-2012, 02:45 AM   #24
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its a serious camera made for serious business, a quick adjustment of the exposure compensation in Av mode doesnt take all that long to do anyhow
02-25-2012, 03:01 AM   #25
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If it would be serious camera it would be able to do like you advices.
But with constant exposure correction. Not to take photo and check histogram, make correction and make second photo. Than when you check histogram again, you find that histogram is AGAIN overburned, because you moved camera by 5% of field (and forest surface is greater).

My conclusion (based on my tests) is:
Only method how to take snapshots on snow with dark areas is to:
A)expose to highlights by picking the brightest point
- either by use of AE-L (set corrections to +2.5Ev)
- or by use Manual (set exp. params so that it will be overexposed to +2.5Ev)
B)use flash meter and set exp params Manually (problem with filters)
C)use grey table.
But You will be not able to quick-take snapshots without fiddling with it .
D-range (and other ) settings will help you only a few.

Last edited by kluvi; 02-25-2012 at 03:12 AM. Reason: filters...
02-25-2012, 03:08 AM   #26
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Or to use Ev bracketing with brutal values (more than 1Ev)
02-25-2012, 08:39 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by kluvi Quote
Or to use Ev bracketing with brutal values (more than 1Ev)
That's the one!
02-25-2012, 11:06 AM   #28
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Cameras generally underexpose in the snow, Pentax included. However, spot metering is going to meter the particular point it was set to in the shot which will likely be the snowboarders jacket unless the photo is cropped. I don't think the photo is too far off myself. Spot metering on dark clothing could have easily blown out the snow altogether and that didn't happen for most of the scene. If you had metered on the snow, you would likely have had an sillouette. Snow on a sunny day reflects an enormous amount light everywhere. I live in snow country and shoot in it a lot. My own preference is to leave the EV settings alone, let the camera do it's 18% metering , shoot in RAW and make adjustments in Lightroom. A lot of my snow shooting is freeski and snowboard competition ( my daughter is pro ). There isn't time to make adjustments while a skier is in the halfpipe. I will do some shots, check the histogram, make any adjustments and then pretty much leave things alone. Out of a few hundred shots I recently took at the Dew Tour, some were just right, a lot needed some +EV and a handful were blown out. I use center weighted metering and try to keep the skier centered but when shooting action, that doesn't always happen. Looking at the LCD is nearly impossible in the bright light, at least for me. Since making adjustments in PP is so easy in the digital age, especially at lower ISO, I prefer that route myself. As others have mentioned, you can always bring up a slight underexposure.
02-25-2012, 02:37 PM   #29
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You have probably did NOT red the story....
It was exposed with multisegment, no corrections.
Now i made some experiments and they are in my conclusion. Sample images with snowboarder are less damaged (oerburned) than my experimental photos. If there were possibility to use 18% metering, then i would do it! But it doesnītn work. Dark sillouette would be much better than overburns it's possible to recover it. At least for ordinary snapshots.Those accidental overexposures are SO big that it would be necessary to underexpose by -2Ev. That equals to nonexisting metering. It's simpler and better to use values which was on films (something like "use F16 1/100s on bright scenes.").

At least i found someone who agrees with me in case of insufficient time for fiddling:
"There isn't time to make adjustments while a skier is in the halfpipe. .........Looking at the LCD is nearly impossible in the bright light, at least for me. "
In that case i would prefer manual setting for brightest part e.g. sky (with +2.5Ev). But You are out when the weather changes.
02-25-2012, 04:37 PM   #30
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I think modern cameras in matrix metering mode try to be too smart. As has been said, Weighted center may produce results more similiar to a film or P&S camera.

However, K-5 outdoor has ample DR. So I simply leave it at matrix mode (which normally works ok) and dial -1EV (or -2EV in a high contrast situation) and shoot. Since I shoot raw, I've no problem to deal with exposure for the few images which are worth it (or shift all images +1EV when importing w/o then loosing any highlight headroom).

It is not true that matrix mode does not burn highlights. E.g., if it thinks there is too much sky risking to loose shadow detail, it will burn the sky. Snow is like a bright background. The Pentax firmware does it as it did for a K10D which had much less DR. There is no way to tell the Pentax matrix metering firmware to preserve more highlights or to strictly expose to the right, or to only burn 5% of pixels etc. I was always wondering why it isn't added. Esp. in LV, metering could be a lot smarter with user interaction.

A weighted center metering will mostly see snow and make it gray, so no burnt snow then.
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