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05-05-2012, 10:30 AM   #31
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Thank you, JaseO36!
To jmg257. I was in manual mode in camera,(obviously with the manual lens), and the flash. I was able to power down the flash output but it was trial and error to achieve correct exposure. Question: Ok, so you are in manual mode with your Pentax Kx, and you set your ISO to 200 or 400, you set the aperture for some depth of field, then with the totally manual lens, such as I was playing with last night, press the AV/EV button to obtain the SS for correct exposure... (the Pentax manual actually does not tell you that, I discovered it), and the camera sets the SS but it is way too slow to prevent blur at a focal length of 50mm..... so, you use the flash...Now, my question is, will the SS, aperture, and ISO all remain the same when the flash is fired? Or, does the SS change when you use flash? I know I should be reading stuff all about this, and I am, but it is nice to be able to just ask a question like that on this forum. I suppose I should know that the SS HAS to change when you use flash unless you are doing some creative stuff like "trailing curtain sync"??

05-05-2012, 07:03 PM   #32
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In manual mode the camera (k-5) will leave the Tv, Av & ISO alone, except it will limit the Tv to 1/180 or slower with a flash on. If you want a faster shutter, you need to switch to HSS mode on the flash. This will allow you to dial down ambient light if desired
05-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by sharonboggi Quote
Now, my question is, will the SS, aperture, and ISO all remain the same when the flash is fired? Or, does the SS change when you use flash?
If your shutter speed is under 1/180 s it will not change. If it's higher it will drop to 1/180th unless you have HSS mode enabled in the flash, then it will allow shutter speed faster than 1/180 s like jmg257 said.
When lighting with flash or studio strobes, you shutter speed does not affect in any way the light from the flash, only ambient light is affected. This is because the flash duration is extremely short, usually in measured in thousands of a second. So when I am lighting my subject with flash I usually leave the shutter speed at 1/125th or 1/180th (again only when I don't need to make use of the ambient light) and control exposure with the aperture, ISO, flash output power and subject to flash distance.
05-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
If I understand what you are asking...it does.

The 58AF2 has a Servo mode (with latest firmware 2.0) so it will fire off the camera flash unit (w/pre-flash supression). It is a sub-setting of "Remote" and not the 'true' Wireless/Remote mode. I would think the camera should be on 'normal' flash mode (i.e. just pop it up). {Hmmm...I don't see why you couldn't also use Wireless mode at the K-5 to trigger a 3rd flash, and then that too would fire off the Metz in Servo!}

This is a manual flash mode for the Metz, so you can set partial output levels to adjust the proper distance to subject.


edit: here ya go!

fware

Servo user-manual add-on
tnx so much for this jmg257. This was exactly what I did wanted

05-08-2012, 01:10 PM   #35
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Is there a difference between using "auto" mode vs "P-TTL" while using a DA lens?
05-08-2012, 01:36 PM - 1 Like   #36
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Auto mode set at the flash uses the thyristor sensor on the flash to meter the scene directly so the flash can control the exposure/flash output based on camera ISO & Av settings (set at the flash by the camera or set on the flash by hand).

In P-TTL mode, the camera controls the flash output, based on its Ev sensor (using light bounced off the mirror) and the exposure settings in the camera.


Pay attention to the distance range for them to work well.

Last edited by jmg257; 05-08-2012 at 07:38 PM.
05-09-2012, 09:48 AM   #37
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Thanks. So is one perferred over the other? Or does situation dictate? i.e. lighting conditions or type of lenses used. or is that what you meant by distance range.
05-09-2012, 06:28 PM   #38
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Some say P-TTL is not the greatest. That things like bounce flash can cause exposure errors. Supposedly the flash auto mode is pretty good on the Metz... I haven't tried it though. I tend to use P-ttl 'cause it is easier especially when the pressure is on for candids, feeling rushed for impromptu portraits etc.

Actually manual mode (flash and camera) gives you the most control over everything. Not all that hard, but it takes practice. When you can plan your shots and give them some thought, you can get great results. That Understanding Flash book is excellent for learning this.

I refer to the distance range (given on the flash) because if you are too close to the subject, there is no way the flash can be controlled to avoid overexposure. Too far (or use improper bounce) and iit'll be underexposed. The flash manual will explain the range and the ideal flash to subject distance.


Last edited by jmg257; 05-09-2012 at 06:39 PM.
08-19-2012, 11:28 AM   #39
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Hi guys, glad to have found this thread. This is my first post on this forum i think. I have k5 with 58the af2 and have been messing around with some of the settings. Managed to get used manual mode, bouncing etc... with reasonable predictability. Today i thought i'll try the pttl mode with a diffuser stofen type from ebay and all the pictures are unpredictable. I set the cam to manual with a= 5.6 shutter 1/60 for sum ambient light light and iso changed from 160a to 800. The imagez are either under exposed severely or washed out. Where am i going wrong? Why is pttl so unreliable? Is the add on diffuser having any impact, if so, by how many stops shud i be compensating the flash? Wudnt the flash automatically expose for the diffuser? Sorry posting from my phone, will post images when i can.
08-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #40
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All I can say that I have also found my K5+58af2 in pttl mode exposures do changing alot (maybe about +-1av) between shots even nothing else do not really change much...i have not found any explanation for this, but did make conclucions that pttl is not so good in K5. If want to use pttl better take many extra pics, try to check exposure all time from histogram or use bracketing. But personally many times i do find it more easier for to use flashmodes Manual or even Auto...stange but true. With my old film body MZ5 with Mezt mz40-2 i did not have problems with exposures when using ttl...
08-21-2012, 04:13 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by jase036 Quote
No, it's not possible with any flash. At least not while using Pentax's wireless mode. If you use some other radio or IR wireless system then yes, you can.
(Couldn't quite quote the whole query - essentially "can the Metz work in manual mode but wirelessly?"). Just to contradict what jase036 said: Metz call it Servo mode. The Metz 58 manual addendum with the firmware upgrade is a bit wooly in its description, but the Metz 48 that I have is clearer. If it does supress the pre-trigger, it is only on the Metz flash, not on the pop-up flash: it fires manually. You can set the power of the unit and you can use the pop-up flash to contribute to the lighting as well. Hence for the first time you can manually control the power of both the onboard and the wireless Metz.

(Sorry, bit of a firmware upgrade junkie, I upgraded the flash but did not realise what was changed till I played with it. Still need to confirm in practice. When in "servo" mode, both the slave mode icon and the M icon are lit. Seem like I have some work cut out tonight)

I have found that ISO must not be in auto for decent exposure. Manual setting of aperture and shutter speed is still the best...
08-21-2012, 08:08 AM   #42
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@Timd I know that the 58 AF has a dumb optical slave (it still would not be using Pentax wireless mode, it just fires when it "sees" any other light, so you wouldn't have to put the camera in wireless flash mode, and hence my comment about it) , but the 48 AF does not have servo mode, are you saying there is a firmware update that add this functionality to the 48?
08-22-2012, 12:02 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jase036 Quote
the 48 AF does not have servo mode,
It does have servo mode.

QuoteOriginally posted by jase036 Quote
are you saying there is a firmware update that add this functionality to the 48?
Yes.
08-22-2012, 03:43 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by jase036 Quote
@Timd I know that the 58 AF has a dumb optical slave (it still would not be using Pentax wireless mode, it just fires when it "sees" any other light, so you wouldn't have to put the camera in wireless flash mode, and hence my comment about it) , but the 48 AF does not have servo mode, are you saying there is a firmware update that add this functionality to the 48?
Simico has answered for me. I am not sure that the Metz has a dumb optical slave. They talk about using the Pentax wireless mode (while Metz are good flashes, their interface and manuals are as bad as I have ever seen). Also, I am not sure you can switch off the pre-flash on the pop-up on any Pentax dSLR. Hence I still believe that it is triggered by the Pentax wireless system, so it is immune from being triggered by another camera. Just my thoughts - still need to confirm.
08-22-2012, 11:56 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
It does have servo mode.
I stand corrected, I had not done a firmware update on my 48-AF and was not aware they had added this feature (it did not have it prior to the 3.0 firmware update), thanks to you and @Timd for pointing this out.

QuoteOriginally posted by Timd Quote
I am not sure that the Metz has a dumb optical slave. They talk about using the Pentax wireless mode (while Metz are good flashes, their interface and manuals are as bad as I have ever seen). Also, I am not sure you can switch off the pre-flash on the pop-up on any Pentax dSLR. Hence I still believe that it is triggered by the Pentax wireless system, so it is immune from being triggered by another camera. Just my thoughts - still need to confirm.
The servo mode in Metz flashes is indeed just a dumb slave mode set to ignore preflash, you can test this out by grabbing any other flash, setting it to the lowest power and firing off 2 flashes in quick succesion, the metz in servo mode will fire along with the second flash (I tried this with a Vivitar HV285), which means it will sync with any other camera or flash system that uses pre-flash for metering, it works very well with the onboard set to regular flash (more proof that the Metz in servo mode does not use or require Pentax's wireless P-TTL specification).
I was able to get the onboard flash to sync with the Metz in servo mode using the onboard as controller which I thought was pretty cool, but since I normally use radio triggers with the flashes on manual control it seems pretty moot to want to use optical sync with manual flash control (seeing as how I get better range and reliabilty using radio).

Last edited by jase036; 08-22-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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