Metz 58 AF-2 with Pentax K5

123jippo · 03-29-2012, 11:23 PM

Is it possible to use this flash manually with K5 in Wireless mode? In wireless mode my flash have only P-TTL available...

jase036 · 03-30-2012, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by 123jippo

Is it possible to use this flash manually with K5 in Wireless mode? In wireless mode my flash have only P-TTL available...

No, it's not possible with any flash. At least not while using Pentax's wireless mode. If you use some other radio or IR wireless system then yes, you can.

123jippo · 03-30-2012, 07:06 AM

jase036: tnx, I was afraid this. Looks like I need to buy few radio flash triggers...

sharonboggi · 05-02-2012, 07:33 AM

I am so happy to find a thread which concerns use of the mecablitz 58 AF-2 flash with the K5. I have been using a Kx for about a year and a half. I have three great lenses and am interested in all sorts of photography. I learn a little more each day. I now want to take better indoor/portrait shots and after some research, purchased the Metz. And soon I will acquire the K5. The manual for the Metz is quite intimidating. I am going to ask one question on this forum today. And that is, does anyone know if the K5 supports the partial light output for the mecablitz? The Kx does not appear to support that function. My next goal is to study Peterson's "Understanding Flash Photography". I have in the past jumped into deep water with my photographic excursions into macro, landscape and black and white imaging. But I think I will probably drown if I try that with flash.
Thank you.
Sharon

jase036 · 05-02-2012, 09:37 AM

@sharonboggi Not sure what you mean with "support the partial light output" all cameras support the flash putting out less than full power. It is usually controlled in the flash; when in P-TTL mode it will most likely not fire the flash at full power unless it was needed and if you need less power you would use flash exposure compensation (press the - button on the flash). In manual mode, it will tell you how much power the flash is using in 1 stop increments (full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16. etc...).

Snydly · 05-02-2012, 10:13 AM

I have the Metz 58 AF-2 and use it with the K7 and k-x. Occasional washout, but mostly great. I set the secondary flash to 1/2, 1/4 or off when bouncing the flash. The secondary is pretty powerful if your subjects are close.

I usually shoot in A mode, but have used PTTL and manual, as well as HSS. I usually have one or two over/under exposures. I use the ISO to get the right exposure. As someone said above, ISO1000 is pretty high. I start at 200-340, and go as high as 800 and as low as 100.

I recently started using the 'Rogue FlashBenders ROGUERELG Large Positionable Reflector' I purchased at a local Camera shop. It worked well.

Bill

jmg257 · 05-02-2012, 10:22 AM

sharon,

You will love the 58-AF2. I used it to take portraits of my kid's swim team and they came out great just using the basic P-TTL (with me not really understanding anything much about its full use).

I concur with jase - the power level in the Metz can only manually be set to a specific level when it is in manual mode. Otherwise in P-TTL mode the camera controls the duration of the flash output (flash in P-TTL) to get what it thinks is the correct exposure based on expsoure settings (esp. ISO, Av) (the flash can do this too when IT is set to Auto mode using the built-in thyristor sensor. See below for manually controlling flash oputput.

A couple points - read the Metz manual a few times - it really isn't that bad and it is a necessity! Definitely have the camera/flash in hand (and camera manual too) and practice things as you go, especially P-TTL & wireless mode (using built-in to fire Metz) to get you going.

GREAT book choice - read that ASAP too! That book is mostly about using the flash and camera in manual modes...where you use the flash's manual 'partial light output' control AND/OR the VERY IMPORTANT 'distance to subject' to control the flash while using the camera settings to control ambient light. Peterson is all about YOU controlling and even removing ambient light using the camera Tv & Av settings, and how/why each affects the use of flash & exisiting light sources. He shows how to combine exposure settings with flash power & specific range to get very predictable very useful flash, and how to get photos with the different sources of light balanced the way YOU want in various circumstances. It works! He does mention and explain using TTL too when needed.

Luckily - the 58 & K-5 are wonderful at all this because they pass all the required info automatically! (the K-5 control of Tv can get annoying though). Though he uses Nikon Speedlights, his book is simple and straight forward, conveys all the info just fine though we're using Pentax and Metz (just need to know out how to change settings - RTM

), and is nicely repetitive till it too functions almost as a manual...you can follow along with trying the things he mentions.

The 58 is a powerful flash that has all the features one could want. Gotta learn to control it!

Last edited by jmg257; 05-03-2012 at 09:46 AM.

sharonboggi · 05-02-2012, 01:52 PM

Of course you have to have the flash in M mode and I probably did not!

sharonboggi · 05-02-2012, 01:53 PM

Thank you so much for this information. The more power the more control you need, to harness that power appropriately. That is a wise way to think about things in general!

123jippo · 05-03-2012, 01:10 AM

I hope this flash would have slave sensor to trigger with other flash

jase036 · 05-03-2012, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by 123jippo

I hope this flash would have slave sensor to trigger with other flash

It does if the other flash uses the Pentax wireless mode (like the Pentax 360/540 FGZ, the built in flash on pentax DSLR since the K-20/200, and Metz 58-AF flashes).

jmg257 · 05-03-2012, 09:55 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by 123jippo

I hope this flash would have slave sensor to trigger with other flash

If I understand what you are asking...it does.

The 58AF2 has a Servo mode (with latest firmware 2.0) so it will fire off the camera flash unit (w/pre-flash supression). It is a sub-setting of "Remote" and not the 'true' Wireless/Remote mode. I would think the camera should be on 'normal' flash mode (i.e. just pop it up). {Hmmm...I don't see why you couldn't also use Wireless mode at the K-5 to trigger a 3rd flash, and then that too would fire off the Metz in Servo!}

This is a manual flash mode for the Metz, so you can set partial output levels to adjust the proper distance to subject.

edit: here ya go!

fware

Servo user-manual add-on

sharonboggi · 05-04-2012, 08:49 AM

I was playing with this flash last night. I had attached a prime 50mm lens of my husband's from the film days. I had to set the aperture on the lens. The lens did not appear to be communicating with the flash. I guess that is to be expected with a totally manual old lens like that? The flash did not give me any information as to how far I needed to be from my subject to achieve the correct exposure, and I had to set the aperture on the flash in addition to setting it on the lens. Today I will play a bit with one of my newer lenses.

jase036 · 05-04-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by sharonboggi

The lens did not appear to be communicating with the flash. I guess that is to be expected with a totally manual old lens like that?

That is correct, the lens has no electronic contact and circuit to relay focus distance and aperture setting information to the camera so in turn the camera will not be able to send the flash the info for P-TTL

jmg257 · 05-04-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by sharonboggi

..The flash did not give me any information as to how far I needed to be from my subject to achieve the correct exposure, and I had to set the aperture on the flash in addition to setting it on the lens. Today I will play a bit with one of my newer lenses.

Anything tricky about changing the F stop or other Ev settings manually in the flash? The Pentax version user manual NEVER mentions this, as I guess it always assumes a digital data transfer, which doesn't make much sense as the flash can be used off-body in A mode, Servo mode, etc. {What mode were you in?}

I just read you can make such F & ISO changes with the camera off, but re-attaching the flash or powering on the camera will over-write them once a transfer takes place. Maybe in your case the body can't overwrite the F stop since it doesn't have that info? THAT would be good to know!

I'd be happy to hear it can be done, and will try it myself 1st chance I get this weekend. Maybe refer to the Nikon manual which does explain it.

05-02-2012, 07:33 AM	#19
sharonboggi New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oxford, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20	metz and K5 partial light output? I am so happy to find a thread which concerns use of the mecablitz 58 AF-2 flash with the K5. I have been using a Kx for about a year and a half. I have three great lenses and am interested in all sorts of photography. I learn a little more each day. I now want to take better indoor/portrait shots and after some research, purchased the Metz. And soon I will acquire the K5. The manual for the Metz is quite intimidating. I am going to ask one question on this forum today. And that is, does anyone know if the K5 supports the partial light output for the mecablitz? The Kx does not appear to support that function. My next goal is to study Peterson's "Understanding Flash Photography". I have in the past jumped into deep water with my photographic excursions into macro, landscape and black and white imaging. But I think I will probably drown if I try that with flash. Thank you. Sharon

05-02-2012, 10:22 AM	#22
jmg257 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202	sharon, You will love the 58-AF2. I used it to take portraits of my kid's swim team and they came out great just using the basic P-TTL (with me not really understanding anything much about its full use). I concur with jase - the power level in the Metz can only manually be set to a specific level when it is in manual mode. Otherwise in P-TTL mode the camera controls the duration of the flash output (flash in P-TTL) to get what it thinks is the correct exposure based on expsoure settings (esp. ISO, Av) (the flash can do this too when IT is set to Auto mode using the built-in thyristor sensor. See below for manually controlling flash oputput. A couple points - read the Metz manual a few times - it really isn't that bad and it is a necessity! Definitely have the camera/flash in hand (and camera manual too) and practice things as you go, especially P-TTL & wireless mode (using built-in to fire Metz) to get you going. GREAT book choice - read that ASAP too! That book is mostly about using the flash and camera in manual modes...where you use the flash's manual 'partial light output' control AND/OR the VERY IMPORTANT 'distance to subject' to control the flash while using the camera settings to control ambient light. Peterson is all about YOU controlling and even removing ambient light using the camera Tv & Av settings, and how/why each affects the use of flash & exisiting light sources. He shows how to combine exposure settings with flash power & specific range to get very predictable very useful flash, and how to get photos with the different sources of light balanced the way YOU want in various circumstances. It works! He does mention and explain using TTL too when needed. Luckily - the 58 & K-5 are wonderful at all this because they pass all the required info automatically! (the K-5 control of Tv can get annoying though). Though he uses Nikon Speedlights, his book is simple and straight forward, conveys all the info just fine though we're using Pentax and Metz (just need to know out how to change settings - RTM), and is nicely repetitive till it too functions almost as a manual...you can follow along with trying the things he mentions. The 58 is a powerful flash that has all the features one could want. Gotta learn to control it! Last edited by jmg257; 05-03-2012 at 09:46 AM.

05-03-2012, 09:55 AM - 1 Like	#27
jmg257 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202	Originally posted by 123jippo I hope this flash would have slave sensor to trigger with other flash If I understand what you are asking...it does. The 58AF2 has a Servo mode (with latest firmware 2.0) so it will fire off the camera flash unit (w/pre-flash supression). It is a sub-setting of "Remote" and not the 'true' Wireless/Remote mode. I would think the camera should be on 'normal' flash mode (i.e. just pop it up). {Hmmm...I don't see why you couldn't also use Wireless mode at the K-5 to trigger a 3rd flash, and then that too would fire off the Metz in Servo!} This is a manual flash mode for the Metz, so you can set partial output levels to adjust the proper distance to subject. edit: here ya go! fware Servo user-manual add-on Last edited by jmg257; 05-03-2012 at 10:21 AM.

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03-29-2012, 11:23 PM	#16
123jippo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 165	Is it possible to use this flash manually with K5 in Wireless mode? In wireless mode my flash have only P-TTL available...

03-30-2012, 05:10 AM	#17
jase036 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	Originally posted by 123jippo Is it possible to use this flash manually with K5 in Wireless mode? In wireless mode my flash have only P-TTL available... No, it's not possible with any flash. At least not while using Pentax's wireless mode. If you use some other radio or IR wireless system then yes, you can.

03-30-2012, 07:06 AM	#18
123jippo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 165	jase036: tnx, I was afraid this. Looks like I need to buy few radio flash triggers...

05-02-2012, 09:37 AM	#20
jase036 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	@sharonboggi Not sure what you mean with "support the partial light output" all cameras support the flash putting out less than full power. It is usually controlled in the flash; when in P-TTL mode it will most likely not fire the flash at full power unless it was needed and if you need less power you would use flash exposure compensation (press the - button on the flash). In manual mode, it will tell you how much power the flash is using in 1 stop increments (full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16. etc...).

05-02-2012, 10:13 AM	#21
Snydly Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Albums Posts: 242	I have the Metz 58 AF-2 and use it with the K7 and k-x. Occasional washout, but mostly great. I set the secondary flash to 1/2, 1/4 or off when bouncing the flash. The secondary is pretty powerful if your subjects are close. I usually shoot in A mode, but have used PTTL and manual, as well as HSS. I usually have one or two over/under exposures. I use the ISO to get the right exposure. As someone said above, ISO1000 is pretty high. I start at 200-340, and go as high as 800 and as low as 100. I recently started using the 'Rogue FlashBenders ROGUERELG Large Positionable Reflector' I purchased at a local Camera shop. It worked well. Bill

05-02-2012, 01:52 PM	#23
sharonboggi New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oxford, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20	Of course you have to have the flash in M mode and I probably did not!

05-02-2012, 01:53 PM	#24
sharonboggi New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oxford, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20	Thank you so much for this information. The more power the more control you need, to harness that power appropriately. That is a wise way to think about things in general!

05-03-2012, 01:10 AM	#25
123jippo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 165	I hope this flash would have slave sensor to trigger with other flash

05-03-2012, 05:33 AM	#26
jase036 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	Originally posted by 123jippo I hope this flash would have slave sensor to trigger with other flash It does if the other flash uses the Pentax wireless mode (like the Pentax 360/540 FGZ, the built in flash on pentax DSLR since the K-20/200, and Metz 58-AF flashes).

05-04-2012, 08:49 AM	#28
sharonboggi New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oxford, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20	I was playing with this flash last night. I had attached a prime 50mm lens of my husband's from the film days. I had to set the aperture on the lens. The lens did not appear to be communicating with the flash. I guess that is to be expected with a totally manual old lens like that? The flash did not give me any information as to how far I needed to be from my subject to achieve the correct exposure, and I had to set the aperture on the flash in addition to setting it on the lens. Today I will play a bit with one of my newer lenses.

05-04-2012, 10:49 AM	#29
jase036 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	Originally posted by sharonboggi The lens did not appear to be communicating with the flash. I guess that is to be expected with a totally manual old lens like that? That is correct, the lens has no electronic contact and circuit to relay focus distance and aperture setting information to the camera so in turn the camera will not be able to send the flash the info for P-TTL

05-04-2012, 12:32 PM	#30
jmg257 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202	Originally posted by sharonboggi ..The flash did not give me any information as to how far I needed to be from my subject to achieve the correct exposure, and I had to set the aperture on the flash in addition to setting it on the lens. Today I will play a bit with one of my newer lenses. Anything tricky about changing the F stop or other Ev settings manually in the flash? The Pentax version user manual NEVER mentions this, as I guess it always assumes a digital data transfer, which doesn't make much sense as the flash can be used off-body in A mode, Servo mode, etc. {What mode were you in?} I just read you can make such F & ISO changes with the camera off, but re-attaching the flash or powering on the camera will over-write them once a transfer takes place. Maybe in your case the body can't overwrite the F stop since it doesn't have that info? THAT would be good to know! I'd be happy to hear it can be done, and will try it myself 1st chance I get this weekend. Maybe refer to the Nikon manual which does explain it.