Is K-5 dust reduction supposed to be quieter than K-7?

**jeffshaddix** · 03-31-2012, 12:27 AM

I just received my new K-5 today and am doing the typical checkout. So far I've found that the focus confirmation hex is front focusing with manual lenses, the lens release button is both stiff to press and loose laterally, and....the dust reduction is ridiculously quiet, so much so that I think it may not be working. With my K-7 I could always hear the dust reduction operation even at an arms length away. With the K-5, I literally have to press my ear to the camera to hear it. It sounds like it's doing something, but it's very different from the K-7 sound. Both cameras are supposedly using the same system, but perhaps something changed with the internals to dampen the sound?

Anyone else noticed this?

Thanks!

hcc · 03-31-2012, 12:36 AM

On my K-7, the dust removal is very quiet. I set up for dust removal at each start and it is quiet. I woul expect the K-7's dust removal to be as quiet (as mine).

AOShep · 03-31-2012, 12:43 AM

Like-wise, when I got my K5 I wasn't sure that the dust removal was working it was so quite. With my K10D you can feel the camera shake. I researched this and the dust removal operation is normal.

Philoslothical · 03-31-2012, 12:53 AM

The SR sounds normal, it's supposed to be quieter than a K-r, for example. I seem to remember a post about it using a different, ultrasonic method.

I think I'd be a bit concerned about the lens release button. From other posts here, it seems a few have fallen off K-5s.

With manual lenses, front focus shouldn't be possible. Have you correctly set the diopter adjustment on your viewfinder? Take off the lens, look through the camera at a brightly lit area, like out a window, and slide the diopter adjustment until the framing lines in the viewfinder are the sharpest possible. That should help.

ChrisJ · 03-31-2012, 02:44 AM - **1 Like**

The correct way to set the dioptre on the viewfinder is to point the camera with an auto focus lens fitted at a well lit flat subject with detail, a brick wall is ideal, you need to be square on to it. The idea is the only plane the camera can focus on is the flat wall. Now, without altering the camera to subject distance or angle, look through the viewfinder and alter the dioptre slider there will be a place on the slider when the viewfinder image 'pops' into focus.

This guarantees that when the camera is in focus, it's in focus to your eye too, essential when using manual focus lenses, the confirmation will sound when any one of the focus points finds focus anywhere in the image (by default), but that might be on another focus plane to where you think it's focusing.

Protection filters have been known to cause front/rear focusing issues.

Chris

**jeffshaddix** · 03-31-2012, 08:36 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. I know the K-7 and K-5 are supposed to use the same system (as opposed to the K-r), but perhaps the "ultrasonic" part of the K-7 had some resonance with internal elements to make it more "sonic".

I expect the lens release button won't stay on for long. I'll keep an eye on it and hopefully when it falls off I won't lose it.

As for front focusing, I think you guys misunderstood me. The diopter and viewfinder accuracy is perfect. What I see is what I get from the viewfinder. The problem is the focus confirmation mechanism (green hex) isn't in line with this reality. For example, if I put the camera in "catch-in-focus" mode and spun the focus ring (in either direction mind you), the shot will be taken with significant front focus. It's as if the phase detection algorithm parameters needs a little tweaking.

**jatrax** · 03-31-2012, 08:54 AM

Green hex is part of the auto-focus system, it has nothing to do with manual focus except that if you are manually focusing and the auto-focus system agrees with the focus you selected using the viewfinder then it will come on.

Ideally both the auto-focus and manual focus systems should agree. Sometimes they do not. This can be caused by the diopter being off and thus your manual focus is wrong or because the auto-focus system is off and is front or back focusing.

Besides the auto-focus system and the manual viewfinder focus system you also have live view which uses a different system altogether. Ideally all three systems should agree.

I start with the camera on a tripod and focused at a target a reasonable distance away for the lens being used. Using liveview focus to your satisfaction, you can zoom in to get a better view. Then shift to the viewfinder auto-focus system, re-focus and watch to see if the lens focus changes, if it does there is a discrepancy between live view auto-focus and viewfinder auto-focus. Do the same test using manual focus. Make adjustments to either the fine focus adjustment menu or diopter or even (if bad enough) you might need to re-shim the focusing screen. But that would be a last resort.

Note you need to use single point focus in order to be sure the same auto-focus point gets used when you re-focus.

Frogfish · 03-31-2012, 09:32 AM

Congrats on your new K5 !

1. Focus Confirmation. Note that there is a 'range' of in-focus with MF lenses (also with AF) so it depends on whether you are focusing from Infinity DOWN to your subject or from minimum focus distance UP to your subject. For each lens one direction will always give sharper shots (and it does vary from lens to lens though for most of mine, not all, it is Infinity DOWN to the subject). This is easy to check on the K7/K5 by taking one shot from each direction and then using the side-by-side review mode and zooming in to see which is sharper, do this a few times for each lens and you will now be certain which it is for each of them (write it down - if you are anything like me you'll forget and have to do it again) !

2. The lens release button is usually stiff on a new K5, it will loosen up with use. Unless it drops off you don't have a problem !

3. Dust removal. I have/had both of those cameras. The K7 is noisy, the K5 is silent - so don't worry it is working (you should just hear a little very high pitched whine) !

Jean Poitiers · 03-31-2012, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Frogfish

Congrats on your new K5 ! ...

3. Dust removal. I have/had both of those cameras. The K7 is noisy, the K5 is silent - so don't worry it is working (you should just hear a little very high pitched whine) !

Bonjour,

Same for me ... I had both at the same time until I sold off the K-7 to retro-finance in part for the K-5 acquisition ... K-5's so quiet that I, too, wondered if it was really working and/or doing anything at all!

A+, John le Green Grenouille

**jeffshaddix** · 03-31-2012, 02:52 PM

Thanks frogfish and john, that's just what I needed to know!

Unfortunately frogfish the focus confirmation front focuses no matter which direction I focus from. I also tried updating the firmware thinking it may have been the tungsten low light issue, but still seeing the issue. I'll likely just need to send the camera to CRIS. I had to do the same with my K-7 when I got it and they fixed it perfectly.

**jeffshaddix** · 03-31-2012, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Green hex is part of the auto-focus system, it has nothing to do with manual focus except that if you are manually focusing and the auto-focus system agrees with the focus you selected using the viewfinder then it will come on.

Ideally both the auto-focus and manual focus systems should agree. Sometimes they do not. This can be caused by the diopter being off and thus your manual focus is wrong or because the auto-focus system is off and is front or back focusing.

Besides the auto-focus system and the manual viewfinder focus system you also have live view which uses a different system altogether. Ideally all three systems should agree.

I start with the camera on a tripod and focused at a target a reasonable distance away for the lens being used. Using liveview focus to your satisfaction, you can zoom in to get a better view. Then shift to the viewfinder auto-focus system, re-focus and watch to see if the lens focus changes, if it does there is a discrepancy between live view auto-focus and viewfinder auto-focus. Do the same test using manual focus. Make adjustments to either the fine focus adjustment menu or diopter or even (if bad enough) you might need to re-shim the focusing screen. But that would be a last resort.

Note you need to use single point focus in order to be sure the same auto-focus point gets used when you re-focus.

Fous screen and contrast AF are spot on, just the phase detect AF looks to be off. Thanks!

Philoslothical · 03-31-2012, 03:35 PM

Are you getting accurate focus with AF lenses in (PD)AF mode? Or, are you seeing front focus in those, too? Have you tried adding a global correction to the AF micro adjustment?

**jeffshaddix** · 03-31-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Philoslothical

Are you getting accurate focus with AF lenses in (PD)AF mode? Or, are you seeing front focus in those, too? Have you tried adding a global correction to the AF micro adjustment?

Just tried +10 and -10, the -10 made it better and the +10 made it worse, but based on some quick calculations from a shot of a ruler, I'd need to set it at -50 in order for it to be accurate. I tried focusing in from both directions, and the focus location was practically the same (at least that's consistent).

Philoslothical · 03-31-2012, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by jeffshaddix

I tried focusing in from both directions

I asked if it happens when using AF, not using MF and focus confirmation.

Also, which len(es) are you testing with? Is the kit lens that far off when using AF (NOT when using MF)?

**jeffshaddix** · 03-31-2012, 09:58 PM

Sorry, yeah that test was with the AF kit lens. I set the focus to MFD or infinity and let the AF take it from there. I only have that one AF lens, but I tried all my other MF glass and are getting the same result. Doh!

03-31-2012, 12:27 AM	#1
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473	Is K-5 dust reduction supposed to be quieter than K-7? I just received my new K-5 today and am doing the typical checkout. So far I've found that the focus confirmation hex is front focusing with manual lenses, the lens release button is both stiff to press and loose laterally, and....the dust reduction is ridiculously quiet, so much so that I think it may not be working. With my K-7 I could always hear the dust reduction operation even at an arms length away. With the K-5, I literally have to press my ear to the camera to hear it. It sounds like it's doing something, but it's very different from the K-7 sound. Both cameras are supposedly using the same system, but perhaps something changed with the internals to dampen the sound? Anyone else noticed this? Thanks!

03-31-2012, 01:33 PM	#9
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Ditto ... Originally posted by Frogfish Congrats on your new K5 ! ... 3. Dust removal. I have/had both of those cameras. The K7 is noisy, the K5 is silent - so don't worry it is working (you should just hear a little very high pitched whine) ! Bonjour, Same for me ... I had both at the same time until I sold off the K-7 to retro-finance in part for the K-5 acquisition ... K-5's so quiet that I, too, wondered if it was really working and/or doing anything at all! A+, John le Green Grenouille

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03-31-2012, 12:36 AM	#2
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,004	On my K-7, the dust removal is very quiet. I set up for dust removal at each start and it is quiet. I woul expect the K-7's dust removal to be as quiet (as mine).

03-31-2012, 12:43 AM	#3
AOShep Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Eastern PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 293	Like-wise, when I got my K5 I wasn't sure that the dust removal was working it was so quite. With my K10D you can feel the camera shake. I researched this and the dust removal operation is normal.

03-31-2012, 12:53 AM	#4
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	The SR sounds normal, it's supposed to be quieter than a K-r, for example. I seem to remember a post about it using a different, ultrasonic method. I think I'd be a bit concerned about the lens release button. From other posts here, it seems a few have fallen off K-5s. With manual lenses, front focus shouldn't be possible. Have you correctly set the diopter adjustment on your viewfinder? Take off the lens, look through the camera at a brightly lit area, like out a window, and slide the diopter adjustment until the framing lines in the viewfinder are the sharpest possible. That should help.

03-31-2012, 02:44 AM - 1 Like	#5
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	The correct way to set the dioptre on the viewfinder is to point the camera with an auto focus lens fitted at a well lit flat subject with detail, a brick wall is ideal, you need to be square on to it. The idea is the only plane the camera can focus on is the flat wall. Now, without altering the camera to subject distance or angle, look through the viewfinder and alter the dioptre slider there will be a place on the slider when the viewfinder image 'pops' into focus. This guarantees that when the camera is in focus, it's in focus to your eye too, essential when using manual focus lenses, the confirmation will sound when any one of the focus points finds focus anywhere in the image (by default), but that might be on another focus plane to where you think it's focusing. Protection filters have been known to cause front/rear focusing issues. Chris

03-31-2012, 08:36 AM	#6
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473 Original Poster	Thanks for the replies guys. I know the K-7 and K-5 are supposed to use the same system (as opposed to the K-r), but perhaps the "ultrasonic" part of the K-7 had some resonance with internal elements to make it more "sonic". I expect the lens release button won't stay on for long. I'll keep an eye on it and hopefully when it falls off I won't lose it. As for front focusing, I think you guys misunderstood me. The diopter and viewfinder accuracy is perfect. What I see is what I get from the viewfinder. The problem is the focus confirmation mechanism (green hex) isn't in line with this reality. For example, if I put the camera in "catch-in-focus" mode and spun the focus ring (in either direction mind you), the shot will be taken with significant front focus. It's as if the phase detection algorithm parameters needs a little tweaking.

03-31-2012, 08:54 AM	#7
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Green hex is part of the auto-focus system, it has nothing to do with manual focus except that if you are manually focusing and the auto-focus system agrees with the focus you selected using the viewfinder then it will come on. Ideally both the auto-focus and manual focus systems should agree. Sometimes they do not. This can be caused by the diopter being off and thus your manual focus is wrong or because the auto-focus system is off and is front or back focusing. Besides the auto-focus system and the manual viewfinder focus system you also have live view which uses a different system altogether. Ideally all three systems should agree. I start with the camera on a tripod and focused at a target a reasonable distance away for the lens being used. Using liveview focus to your satisfaction, you can zoom in to get a better view. Then shift to the viewfinder auto-focus system, re-focus and watch to see if the lens focus changes, if it does there is a discrepancy between live view auto-focus and viewfinder auto-focus. Do the same test using manual focus. Make adjustments to either the fine focus adjustment menu or diopter or even (if bad enough) you might need to re-shim the focusing screen. But that would be a last resort. Note you need to use single point focus in order to be sure the same auto-focus point gets used when you re-focus.

03-31-2012, 09:32 AM	#8
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Congrats on your new K5 ! 1. Focus Confirmation. Note that there is a 'range' of in-focus with MF lenses (also with AF) so it depends on whether you are focusing from Infinity DOWN to your subject or from minimum focus distance UP to your subject. For each lens one direction will always give sharper shots (and it does vary from lens to lens though for most of mine, not all, it is Infinity DOWN to the subject). This is easy to check on the K7/K5 by taking one shot from each direction and then using the side-by-side review mode and zooming in to see which is sharper, do this a few times for each lens and you will now be certain which it is for each of them (write it down - if you are anything like me you'll forget and have to do it again) ! 2. The lens release button is usually stiff on a new K5, it will loosen up with use. Unless it drops off you don't have a problem ! 3. Dust removal. I have/had both of those cameras. The K7 is noisy, the K5 is silent - so don't worry it is working (you should just hear a little very high pitched whine) !

03-31-2012, 02:52 PM	#10
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473 Original Poster	Thanks frogfish and john, that's just what I needed to know! Unfortunately frogfish the focus confirmation front focuses no matter which direction I focus from. I also tried updating the firmware thinking it may have been the tungsten low light issue, but still seeing the issue. I'll likely just need to send the camera to CRIS. I had to do the same with my K-7 when I got it and they fixed it perfectly.

03-31-2012, 02:53 PM	#11
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax Green hex is part of the auto-focus system, it has nothing to do with manual focus except that if you are manually focusing and the auto-focus system agrees with the focus you selected using the viewfinder then it will come on. Ideally both the auto-focus and manual focus systems should agree. Sometimes they do not. This can be caused by the diopter being off and thus your manual focus is wrong or because the auto-focus system is off and is front or back focusing. Besides the auto-focus system and the manual viewfinder focus system you also have live view which uses a different system altogether. Ideally all three systems should agree. I start with the camera on a tripod and focused at a target a reasonable distance away for the lens being used. Using liveview focus to your satisfaction, you can zoom in to get a better view. Then shift to the viewfinder auto-focus system, re-focus and watch to see if the lens focus changes, if it does there is a discrepancy between live view auto-focus and viewfinder auto-focus. Do the same test using manual focus. Make adjustments to either the fine focus adjustment menu or diopter or even (if bad enough) you might need to re-shim the focusing screen. But that would be a last resort. Note you need to use single point focus in order to be sure the same auto-focus point gets used when you re-focus. Fous screen and contrast AF are spot on, just the phase detect AF looks to be off. Thanks!

03-31-2012, 03:35 PM	#12
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	Are you getting accurate focus with AF lenses in (PD)AF mode? Or, are you seeing front focus in those, too? Have you tried adding a global correction to the AF micro adjustment?

03-31-2012, 09:20 PM	#13
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473 Original Poster	Originally posted by Philoslothical Are you getting accurate focus with AF lenses in (PD)AF mode? Or, are you seeing front focus in those, too? Have you tried adding a global correction to the AF micro adjustment? Just tried +10 and -10, the -10 made it better and the +10 made it worse, but based on some quick calculations from a shot of a ruler, I'd need to set it at -50 in order for it to be accurate. I tried focusing in from both directions, and the focus location was practically the same (at least that's consistent).

03-31-2012, 09:28 PM	#14
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	Originally posted by jeffshaddix I tried focusing in from both directions I asked if it happens when using AF, not using MF and focus confirmation. Also, which len(es) are you testing with? Is the kit lens that far off when using AF (NOT when using MF)?

03-31-2012, 09:58 PM	#15
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473 Original Poster	Sorry, yeah that test was with the AF kit lens. I set the focus to MFD or infinity and let the AF take it from there. I only have that one AF lens, but I tried all my other MF glass and are getting the same result. Doh!