K-5 used to film Climbing How-To video series

FullertonImages · 04-20-2012, 11:21 AM

Hey Folks!

Here's the first installment of a climbing skills video series I've been working on with Climbing Magazine. We'll be doing 10 of these, I think.

Comments, feedback or questions appreciated. Enjoy!

Cheers,

Ben

You Tube

Technical deets, for those who want to know:

Shot entirely with two K-5's, Pentax lenses and a Tamron 28-75. Sounds was two RØDE VideoMics on the K-5's to get good syncing signals and a RØDE NTG-2 into a Zoom H4n for the final sound. Cameras supported with Manfrotto sticks, 701HD and 501HD fluid heads. There was also a Kessler Crane KC-Lite8 used on a shot or two. Edited in Final Cut Pro X, and color graded in Magic Bullet Looks 2.

Last edited by FullertonImages; 04-20-2012 at 12:33 PM.

wv76x · 04-20-2012, 12:08 PM

Thanks for posting. I've really been interested in any commercial video work shot with the K-5. This looks great! As a novice climber myself, I can see this series being very popular, especially with the great production value you've brought to the project. Did you shoot 1080 and post at 24P or some other combo? I shoot video with a 5DII and a 60D, although I really like the look of the K-5 footage. I wish the K-5 had manual audio level, since for many projects I find I can use the camera audio out of my Tascam without having to sync the second system sound.

I've edited with FCP since about day one a long time ago, but I'm still dragging my feet on switching to FCP X. I've tried the demo, but it seems as if I don't ever have time to spend the time necessary to get comfortable before the next project comes up. Mostly, it seems that the compositing isn't as robust in X, especially since I use a lot of layer photoshop files. I suppose that's what Motion is for. Any thoughts you have on FCP X? Thanks and I'll watch for more installments.

Jean Poitiers · 04-20-2012, 12:36 PM

Bonjour,

Thanks a lot for the post ... good to see that gear combo in action and the results that can be produced.

Salut, John le Frog

morpho · 04-20-2012, 01:35 PM

This looks great! Not into video myself, but this looks very, very good to my eyes.

Franky2step · 04-20-2012, 04:01 PM

Well done, look forward to new episodes!

panoguy · 04-20-2012, 05:32 PM

Nice, concise video on an important subject for all levels of climbers (just ask Lynn Hill...).

My only comment would be to ditch the hint of background voice when she isn't talking (during the vertical track, right before her warning about the belay loop). Some of the wind sound was a bit strong, but overall added to the "reality" of the location.

FullertonImages · 04-20-2012, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by wv76x

Thanks for posting. I've really been interested in any commercial video work shot with the K-5. This looks great! As a novice climber myself, I can see this series being very popular, especially with the great production value you've brought to the project. Did you shoot 1080 and post at 24P or some other combo? I shoot video with a 5DII and a 60D, although I really like the look of the K-5 footage. I wish the K-5 had manual audio level, since for many projects I find I can use the camera audio out of my Tascam without having to sync the second system sound.

I've edited with FCP since about day one a long time ago, but I'm still dragging my feet on switching to FCP X. I've tried the demo, but it seems as if I don't ever have time to spend the time necessary to get comfortable before the next project comes up. Mostly, it seems that the compositing isn't as robust in X, especially since I use a lot of layer photoshop files. I suppose that's what Motion is for. Any thoughts you have on FCP X? Thanks and I'll watch for more installments.

Thanks for the kind words!

I shot in the 1080p/25 mode, and finished it out like that as well. Manual controls on the K-5 would be very nice, but like you said the K-5 footage has a really nice look to it, so I get by. Plus, I'm already fully in love with Pentax system as a still photographer, and the current shortcomings of the K-5 in video aren't nearly enough to make me think about shooting a second system. I'm just hanging tight on the video front, doing the best I can with it for now, trusting that things will improve with the next generation, as the K-01 is already testament to.

I'm really, really in love with FCPX. Unlike you, I didn't have a tons of experience in previous version of FCP, so in a way, I think that put me in a better place to make the transition. X is a very different program, and it's even a very different mental approach to editing. I think it's actually a bit of an advantage not being too ingrained with how things used to be done in FCP. It was an absolutely horrid software launch, so I understand why many people are still leery, but much of it has been corrected, and more is on the way. I don't really do much compositing, so I wouldn't have know much about if it's beter or worse. But when it comes to ease of use, efficiency, user interface, organization and fluid workflow, FCPX can't be beat. The best way to describe it is "streamlined". Every single thing just seems to be one step or one click faster than it used to be (with the exception of audio crossfades). IT's definitely not for everyone, But for the work I'm doing right now, it's definitely the right program for me.

Tom G · 04-21-2012, 01:09 PM

Nice Ben,
You should have used the "Travolta length" for describing how much rope to start with. (imagine doing the Sat. Night Fever dance move - that much rope).

We need to get together for more fun and adventure soon.

--=Tom

Mehlsack · 04-22-2012, 06:15 PM

Dear FullertonImage

PLEASE DONT post this video online as some kind of how to!

Every Manufacturer of climbing harnesses is strongly recommending the use of the belay loop. In some parts of the world it is the ONLY part of the harness which really IS tested according to its breaking point etc.!

Here in Germany there are a lot of people (even instructors) who does not know that avoiding the belay loop is wrong i dont know why this strange history is repeated over and over again!

For further reading:

Belay Loop Etiquette

Ok, back to topic.

I really like the movie, have you adjusted any colors in the software (Final Effects) ?

For some seconds the sounds a bit off because the instructor is not turning to the "righ" camera. Maybe a Stick or Pole with the mic above the instructor might be a better solution?

panoguy · 04-23-2012, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Mehlsack

Every Manufacturer of climbing harnesses is strongly recommending the use of the belay loop. In some parts of the world it is the ONLY part of the harness which really IS tested according to its breaking point etc.!

Watch the video again before risking your own (or someone else's) safety. The video is about tying into the rope as the climber, not the belayer! Belay technique was not addressed.

That link you have is from a person who is trying to correct poor instruction in belaying. Don't confuse it with climbing! That big loop on the harness is called the "belay loop" specifically because it is there for a 'biner and belay device to be attached to the harness of the person on the ground.

No harness manufacturer recommends the belay loop (if present) as the sole point of safety for tying into as the climber! Look at this link from Petzl - and the section on "tying in!" The belay loop is big, so the point of attachment will slide, not to mention the loop itself is not intended for the falling impact from a climber (note how the Petzl diagrams avoid that loop, except in belaying or rappelling!). The impact of a fall (in kN) is much greater for the climber than the belayer (it's physics: that's why my 110lb wife can easily belay and stop someone twice her weight or more, during a fall). Please be safe and don't quickly dismiss a video (or your weblink) if you don't fully understand them.

NB: I've been climbing for 10 years, and lost a friend who let someone else rig his line for an industrial job. I feel strongly about this.

Mehlsack · 04-23-2012, 09:31 AM

Yeah, you are right, sorry, i will dont correct my previous post because it would confuse even more.

The knot will slide in the belay loop, this will minimize abrasion on one certian point, whereas tieing in without belay loop will concentrate on the leg and waist loops, this means that when you are on a long tour and suddenly realize that the abrasion is to heavy in the leg/waist loops you should stop climbing, because you cant trust the belay loop either till it would break the heavily used leg and waist loops. On the opposite if you realize that the belay loob might be worne out, you can switch to the leg/waist loops and use them untill you get safely home.

Second, under very rare circumstances it is possible that a climber is able to archive the cross-load breaking point of the leg/waist loops in a fall.
A rope used for climbing should not exceed 15kn (most ropes are around 8-10kn) impact force so there is plenty of room before you have to worry about the breaking of the belay loop.

The biggest problem is that the knot might hit you very unfortable in the chest if you didnt made it very tight in the belay loop

I am deeply sorry for your loss, but i can assure you that i have a long climbing experience as well and that i do have other credentials for this topic as well.

dylansalt · 04-23-2012, 11:48 AM

Nice to have some fellow rock jocks on this forum:-)

Myself a climber of over 15 years.

Todd Skinner a world renowned rock climber of exceptional skill died due to the failure of his belay loop while abseiling - granted his harness was well past it's sell by date - still you can't take it for granted.

Mehlsack · 04-23-2012, 01:53 PM

Yes, this incident is a reason for this "dont use the baley loop"-thing. This is a real tragedy but it underlines one of the main problems in the climbing sport, we just dont change our harness often enough.

When i started working in an climbing"park", where you can climb in trees and walk on steelcables etc. we had to renew almost the whole equipment, because my forerunner didnt checked the gear on a regular basis...
Sometimes when i see people using their own gear it is so worn out that we force them to use our equipment, even for free, because it would just be unresponsible to let them climb ( and i absolutly dont want an ambulance and police there after an accident)

dankoBanana · 04-23-2012, 05:33 PM

the main reason for the knot going through the waist/leg loops and not the belay loop is that it ensures a 2 point system. 2 loops have to break for you to fall, not one. we use the belay loop for belay devices because the use of the waist/leg loops would tilt the belay device to the side and because belayers don't absorb the full impact of the fall. they get pulled by much much less force.

Mehlsack · 04-23-2012, 07:19 PM

you dont use the leg/waist loops because the biners arent build to withstand cross-axis load and therefore there can be quite dangerous to use for belaying where it is quite possible to get cross loads.
In addition to that the belay loop is tested to more then 25kn.

IF the climber or the belayer is exposed to a force of 25kn you have really good chanced to be heavily injured and a good amount of ropes is not even capable of dealing with 25kN so the rope itself would break before the belay loop OR waist OR leg loop. (Yes, there are ropes out there which do >35kN but you have to accept that you cant be sure until you bought it for yourself)

04-20-2012, 12:36 PM	#3
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Merci beaucoup ... *Bonjour,* Thanks a lot for the post ... good to see that gear combo in action and the results that can be produced. Salut, John le Frog

04-23-2012, 08:42 AM	#10
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by Mehlsack Every Manufacturer of climbing harnesses is strongly recommending the use of the belay loop. In some parts of the world it is the ONLY part of the harness which really IS tested according to its breaking point etc.! Watch the video again before risking your own (or someone else's) safety. The video is about *tying into the rope as the climber, not the belayer! Belay technique was not addressed. That link you have is from a person who is trying to correct poor instruction in belaying. Don't confuse it with climbing! That big loop on the harness is called the "belay loop" specifically because it is there for a 'biner and belay device* to be attached to the harness of the person on the ground. No harness manufacturer recommends the belay loop (if present) as the sole point of safety for tying into as the climber! Look at this link from Petzl - and the section on "tying in!" The belay loop is big, so the point of attachment will slide, not to mention the loop itself is not intended for the falling impact from a climber (note how the Petzl diagrams avoid that loop, except in belaying or rappelling!). The impact of a fall (in kN) is much greater for the climber than the belayer (it's physics: that's why my 110lb wife can easily belay and stop someone twice her weight or more, during a fall). Please be safe and don't quickly dismiss a video (or your weblink) if you don't fully understand them. NB: I've been climbing for 10 years, and lost a friend who let someone else rig his line for an industrial job. I feel strongly about this. Last edited by panoguy; 04-23-2012 at 09:01 AM.

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04-20-2012, 12:08 PM	#2
wv76x New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Pleasant View, Utah Posts: 7	Thanks for posting. I've really been interested in any commercial video work shot with the K-5. This looks great! As a novice climber myself, I can see this series being very popular, especially with the great production value you've brought to the project. Did you shoot 1080 and post at 24P or some other combo? I shoot video with a 5DII and a 60D, although I really like the look of the K-5 footage. I wish the K-5 had manual audio level, since for many projects I find I can use the camera audio out of my Tascam without having to sync the second system sound. I've edited with FCP since about day one a long time ago, but I'm still dragging my feet on switching to FCP X. I've tried the demo, but it seems as if I don't ever have time to spend the time necessary to get comfortable before the next project comes up. Mostly, it seems that the compositing isn't as robust in X, especially since I use a lot of layer photoshop files. I suppose that's what Motion is for. Any thoughts you have on FCP X? Thanks and I'll watch for more installments.

04-20-2012, 01:35 PM	#4
morpho Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 95	This looks great! Not into video myself, but this looks very, very good to my eyes.

04-20-2012, 04:01 PM	#5
Franky2step Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Niagara Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 793	Well done, look forward to new episodes!

04-20-2012, 05:32 PM	#6
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Nice, concise video on an important subject for all levels of climbers (just ask Lynn Hill...). My only comment would be to ditch the hint of background voice when she isn't talking (during the vertical track, right before her warning about the belay loop). Some of the wind sound was a bit strong, but overall added to the "reality" of the location.

04-20-2012, 10:49 PM	#7
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883 Original Poster	Originally posted by wv76x Thanks for posting. I've really been interested in any commercial video work shot with the K-5. This looks great! As a novice climber myself, I can see this series being very popular, especially with the great production value you've brought to the project. Did you shoot 1080 and post at 24P or some other combo? I shoot video with a 5DII and a 60D, although I really like the look of the K-5 footage. I wish the K-5 had manual audio level, since for many projects I find I can use the camera audio out of my Tascam without having to sync the second system sound. I've edited with FCP since about day one a long time ago, but I'm still dragging my feet on switching to FCP X. I've tried the demo, but it seems as if I don't ever have time to spend the time necessary to get comfortable before the next project comes up. Mostly, it seems that the compositing isn't as robust in X, especially since I use a lot of layer photoshop files. I suppose that's what Motion is for. Any thoughts you have on FCP X? Thanks and I'll watch for more installments. Thanks for the kind words! I shot in the 1080p/25 mode, and finished it out like that as well. Manual controls on the K-5 would be very nice, but like you said the K-5 footage has a really nice look to it, so I get by. Plus, I'm already fully in love with Pentax system as a still photographer, and the current shortcomings of the K-5 in video aren't nearly enough to make me think about shooting a second system. I'm just hanging tight on the video front, doing the best I can with it for now, trusting that things will improve with the next generation, as the K-01 is already testament to. I'm really, really in love with FCPX. Unlike you, I didn't have a tons of experience in previous version of FCP, so in a way, I think that put me in a better place to make the transition. X is a very different program, and it's even a very different mental approach to editing. I think it's actually a bit of an advantage not being too ingrained with how things used to be done in FCP. It was an absolutely horrid software launch, so I understand why many people are still leery, but much of it has been corrected, and more is on the way. I don't really do much compositing, so I wouldn't have know much about if it's beter or worse. But when it comes to ease of use, efficiency, user interface, organization and fluid workflow, FCPX can't be beat. The best way to describe it is "streamlined". Every single thing just seems to be one step or one click faster than it used to be (with the exception of audio crossfades). IT's definitely not for everyone, But for the work I'm doing right now, it's definitely the right program for me.

04-21-2012, 01:09 PM	#8
Tom G New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 13	Nice Ben, You should have used the "Travolta length" for describing how much rope to start with. (imagine doing the Sat. Night Fever dance move - that much rope). We need to get together for more fun and adventure soon. --=Tom

04-22-2012, 06:15 PM	#9
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	Dear FullertonImage PLEASE DONT post this video online as some kind of how to! Every Manufacturer of climbing harnesses is strongly recommending the use of the belay loop. In some parts of the world it is the ONLY part of the harness which really IS tested according to its breaking point etc.! Here in Germany there are a lot of people (even instructors) who does not know that avoiding the belay loop is wrong i dont know why this strange history is repeated over and over again! For further reading: Belay Loop Etiquette Ok, back to topic. I really like the movie, have you adjusted any colors in the software (Final Effects) ? For some seconds the sounds a bit off because the instructor is not turning to the "righ" camera. Maybe a Stick or Pole with the mic above the instructor might be a better solution?

04-23-2012, 09:31 AM	#11
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	Yeah, you are right, sorry, i will dont correct my previous post because it would confuse even more. The knot will slide in the belay loop, this will minimize abrasion on one certian point, whereas tieing in without belay loop will concentrate on the leg and waist loops, this means that when you are on a long tour and suddenly realize that the abrasion is to heavy in the leg/waist loops you should stop climbing, because you cant trust the belay loop either till it would break the heavily used leg and waist loops. On the opposite if you realize that the belay loob might be worne out, you can switch to the leg/waist loops and use them untill you get safely home. Second, under very rare circumstances it is possible that a climber is able to archive the cross-load breaking point of the leg/waist loops in a fall. A rope used for climbing should not exceed 15kn (most ropes are around 8-10kn) impact force so there is plenty of room before you have to worry about the breaking of the belay loop. The biggest problem is that the knot might hit you very unfortable in the chest if you didnt made it very tight in the belay loop I am deeply sorry for your loss, but i can assure you that i have a long climbing experience as well and that i do have other credentials for this topic as well.

04-23-2012, 11:48 AM	#12
dylansalt Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,052	Nice to have some fellow rock jocks on this forum:-) Myself a climber of over 15 years. Todd Skinner a world renowned rock climber of exceptional skill died due to the failure of his belay loop while abseiling - granted his harness was well past it's sell by date - still you can't take it for granted.

04-23-2012, 01:53 PM	#13
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	Yes, this incident is a reason for this "dont use the baley loop"-thing. This is a real tragedy but it underlines one of the main problems in the climbing sport, we just dont change our harness often enough. When i started working in an climbing"park", where you can climb in trees and walk on steelcables etc. we had to renew almost the whole equipment, because my forerunner didnt checked the gear on a regular basis... Sometimes when i see people using their own gear it is so worn out that we force them to use our equipment, even for free, because it would just be unresponsible to let them climb ( and i absolutly dont want an ambulance and police there after an accident)

04-23-2012, 05:33 PM	#14
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	the main reason for the knot going through the waist/leg loops and not the belay loop is that it ensures a 2 point system. 2 loops have to break for you to fall, not one. we use the belay loop for belay devices because the use of the waist/leg loops would tilt the belay device to the side and because belayers don't absorb the full impact of the fall. they get pulled by much much less force.

04-23-2012, 07:19 PM	#15
Mehlsack Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Innsbruck Posts: 283	you dont use the leg/waist loops because the biners arent build to withstand cross-axis load and therefore there can be quite dangerous to use for belaying where it is quite possible to get cross loads. In addition to that the belay loop is tested to more then 25kn. IF the climber or the belayer is exposed to a force of 25kn you have really good chanced to be heavily injured and a good amount of ropes is not even capable of dealing with 25kN so the rope itself would break before the belay loop OR waist OR leg loop. (Yes, there are ropes out there which do >35kN but you have to accept that you cant be sure until you bought it for yourself)