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04-23-2012, 05:32 AM   #1
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24 or 36 Mpx sensor

I enjoy my K5 and have no intention to switch brand.
I have been reading other camera rumour sites. It comes to my attention that Sony A77 is initially aiming to be a Canikon killer with its 24Mpx sensor at a budget price.
Nikon has replied with D3200 with 24 MPx sensor at 699.oo (probably half of A77) though of lower specifications. Is this the Sony killer? More than 50% of Sony fanboys believe D3200 will hurt the sale of A77.

I am interested in the topic because sooner or later, Pentax will come up with an update for K5. Wether it is FF or not is not my question.

If Pentax decides to go with the same 24 Mpx sensor in D3200 or A77 in the K5 upgrade, is Pentax able to match the Nikon or Sony price? Will you buy one if the upgrade is the same sensor as Nikon D3200 but priced as A77? Do you prefer the D800 sensor in the K5 upgrade?

I know there are lots of discussions about areas needing upgrade such as AF, QC issues etc. I doubt Pentax will produce a K5 upgrade without a new sensor.

04-23-2012, 06:12 AM   #2
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This have nothing to do in the K-5 section
04-23-2012, 06:25 AM   #3
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If you use fixed primes, only shoot at optimum aperture, bolt the camera to a bench and lock the mirror you will probably notice the extra resolution of 24 mpx over the K5's 16. You'll also notice the even bigger more unwieldy files, greater high ISO noise and poorer dynamic range.

If you just take pictures like a normal person then 16mpx on an APS is enough for anyone.
04-23-2012, 06:47 AM   #4
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I still see great admiration and desire to own a D700 from many people.......and it's only 12MP. I think the K5 is very adequate for 99% of all shooters, and doubt that a larger sensor would make me want to upgrade. I shoot Raw+ and the files are already large.......more would not help me in any appreciable way.....and in fact, might actually hurt.
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04-23-2012, 07:00 AM   #5
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Bigger isn't necessarily BETTER!

By increasing the pixel count, noise inevitably goes up with files sizes increasing exponentially!

I'd rather see fundamental bugs in the K5 being fixed first then I could count myself as a proud K5 owner.
04-23-2012, 07:17 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by WightWalker Quote
By increasing the pixel count, noise inevitably goes up with files sizes increasing exponentially!
Noise per pixel goes up but you also have more pixels so average noise actually stays the same roughly, you can check the sensor on DXO and it's very decent sensor the 24mp.

Size and processing power goes up but the hardware for those increase faster then the filesize so i ain't that worried about that.

Most likely the new K5 will also have the same 24mp sensor.
04-23-2012, 08:30 AM   #7
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I was just over on the DXOMark site, and of course they don't have the tests on the 3200 yet, but they do have them on the Nex 7. Slightly worse dynamic range and high iso performance than the K5.

But its getting to a point in resolution, that the resolution numbers beyond a certain point, aren't nearly as important as the controls (or lack of them) on the body. We saw that with the K01, great sensor but lacks some features that a landscape photog would like, such as a simple cable port. I suspect that Nikon will ensure that the 3200 is compromised in some way as well so that it doesn't hurt sales of their more expensive models.

I recently printed out a canvas measuring 2' by 3' and it came out sharp and beautiful, thanks to the 16 megapixel sensor. I could have easily gone to 4' or 5' in length, but i don't have any current need for something that big. So like i said before, beyond 16 mp is sort of irrelevant to me, i'm much more interested in the camera body control features.

Will Pentax be forced to play in the mp numbers race - probably, but the iso performance will suffer a bit. Buy your K5 now, i think is good advice.
04-23-2012, 08:37 AM   #8
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People must have really old computer hardware. Your computer has to be at the edge of handling a 16MP file and barely acceptable before you'll notice a 24MP file being a problem.

04-23-2012, 08:50 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I was just over on the DXOMark site, and of course they don't have the tests on the 3200 yet, but they do have them on the Nex 7. Slightly worse dynamic range and high iso performance than the K5.

But its getting to a point in resolution, that the resolution numbers beyond a certain point, aren't nearly as important as the controls (or lack of them) on the body. We saw that with the K01, great sensor but lacks some features that a landscape photog would like, such as a simple cable port. I suspect that Nikon will ensure that the 3200 is compromised in some way as well so that it doesn't hurt sales of their more expensive models.

I recently printed out a canvas measuring 2' by 3' and it came out sharp and beautiful, thanks to the 16 megapixel sensor. I could have easily gone to 4' or 5' in length, but i don't have any current need for something that big. So like i said before, beyond 16 mp is sort of irrelevant to me, i'm much more interested in the camera body control features.

Will Pentax be forced to play in the mp numbers race - probably, but the iso performance will suffer a bit. Buy your K5 now, i think is good advice.
First off is that these big mpx give only theoretical resolution advantages that need a perfect lens and technique to show. The other thing is that if you are printing big - then people don't stand 6 inches in front of it! A 16 mpx SLR will make 30' images beautifully if they are viewed from the correct distance:-)
04-23-2012, 09:30 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I was just over on the DXOMark site, and of course they don't have the tests on the 3200 yet, but they do have them on the Nex 7. Slightly worse dynamic range and high iso performance than the K5.
Pentax did really well with the sesnor, they are scoring the best of the 3 using them (Nkon + Sony) so you should actually compare the NEX7 with the NEX5 for example, that might give you a more even comparison.
Overall there is very little between them beside the pixel count so it looks like a good candidate.
04-23-2012, 09:46 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Geoff H Quote
First off is that these big mpx give only theoretical resolution advantages that need a perfect lens and technique to show. The other thing is that if you are printing big - then people don't stand 6 inches in front of it! A 16 mpx SLR will make 30' images beautifully if they are viewed from the correct distance:-)
I understand that, but 2 comments:
a. I like to compete occasionally in some of the juried gallery contests, and none of the dozen galleries (in my area) that i've seen so far, have really big spaces, yet they show prints or paintings up to 10 feet in one case.

b. So a lot of the time, folks pass pretty close to large prints. Even though its not required, the recent canvas i did at 3' length looks as good at 2 feet as it does at 45'. i did all the things i've learned to do for large prints - and it worked.

One irony of the current situation is that many cameras on the market (or in photographer hands) are capable of doing large prints, 1/3 of camera owners do not print at all according to one PF poll, and most images from even SLRs are shown at 1000 pixels or less on forums.

After perusing Falk's thread in the non-Pentax forum about the D800e with 36 mp, it looks like in 5 years, we'll be looking at the 16mp camera as "nothing special". Think i'll go out and take some pictures

Last edited by philbaum; 04-23-2012 at 09:53 AM.
04-23-2012, 10:16 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Geoff H Quote
First off is that these big mpx give only theoretical resolution advantages that need a perfect lens and technique to show.
Better get use to it. More MP is what cameras will be having as we march into the future.
04-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #13
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I think most will just be happy if whatever new sensor doesn't have stains and the camera will AF decently at wide apertures under common indoor lighting situations regardless of the actual number of mp.
04-23-2012, 10:21 AM   #14
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A77 and d3200 are not comparable cameras, just like my phone is not comparable to my dslr even though they have a similarly sized lcd screen
04-23-2012, 10:57 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
After perusing Falk's thread in the non-Pentax forum about the D800e with 36 mp, it looks like in 5 years, we'll be looking at the 16mp camera as "nothing special". Think i'll go out and take some pictures
At ISO100 my 5-year-old K10D still produces the best colors of any dSLR I've used. It is now a capture device for special MF lenses like the K35/3.5 on a tripod.

I've skipped all the bodies and senors until the K-01 - which truly produces an astonishing image with the 16Mp Sony sensor (and Pentax's special Imaging Engine pixie dust). AFAIC they can keep producing K-5's (with ergonomic enhancements) for several more years at declining prices and I'll bet they keep selling them.
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