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05-14-2012, 03:49 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I would like that. When they can make it K-5 Silver Limited Edition then there must be a place for K-5 Monochrome.

I do wonder how different the sensor would be productionwise, since that would make als some differentiation cost-wise.
Your saying that a paint job is the same as new sensor?

Production of the sensor is the same, you simply don't add the filters but besides that you need to adjust the hardware and the firmware for the new sensor.
You need to adjust the AF because that's effected by the filters and adjust the image algorithms of the processor, it's really not a simple switch.

05-15-2012, 04:16 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Monochrome camera will be a low quantity camera so the developing costs (for the camera and altered producting line) must be shared by fewer units so the price will go up, you probably need to pay a few hundreds more.
True. However, M9M is priced out of the range of many fans. I am sure a lot of fans are saving up for the M10, probably due to be released within the next few months instead of investing in M9M.

QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
Maybe you should just ask, whether they can convert a K-5 for you ?
I think it is worth it even if i have to pay twice i have to pay for a K5.

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
So... why couldn't Pentax release specialized variants?
Well Rio, i think Pentax has been playing catch up with K01 and Q. I am not certain of its success but can only wish them all the best.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Looking at M9M that goes up to iso 10.000 with a nice image (two full stops advantage), would that mean that K-5M would produce black and white images at iso6400 where K-5 has the same imagequality at iso1600?
Ron, that is meant to be the case with the new B&W sensor. The M9M has a sensor with ISO probably still not quite matching K5. I will be thrilled if a K5M can go few stops beyond current ISO of 12800.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Isn't the leica sensor full frame? That brings up a related question. Wasn't the M9 sensor made by Kodak?
Yes to both questions. I am more than happy if a K5M is APSc, if there is one.
05-15-2012, 06:34 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bestzoom Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico:
So... why couldn't Pentax release specialized variants?
Well Rio, i think Pentax has been playing catch up with K01 and Q. I am not certain of its success but can only wish them all the best.
It was rather a rhetorical question. Pentax just hasn't the resources now. But such a move would sure grab attention!
05-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bestzoom Quote
True. However, M9M is priced out of the range of many fans. I am sure a lot of fans are saving up for the M10, probably due to be released within the next few months instead of investing in M9M.
But i wasn't talking about that.
I was responding to that K5 M should be the same price as a Normal K5 and that will never happen, there might be a market for cheaper true B&W camera but doubt we will ever see one.

Also it takes away the flexibility you have with software, if you want to do B&W you might as well get a SLR for a few bucks from ebay and develop the film at home, much more fun if you ask me.

05-15-2012, 12:20 PM   #20
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Well a K-5M could be more expensive, like the pricerange for K-5 Silver, so there is some extra money for such a camera. No idea how much the eaxtra costs are for development.
05-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #21
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I am not exactly thrilled about a monochrome sensor. I think that, in order to really get striking images, you ought to do a careful use of color filters (as with BW films), which can be fun, but surely isn't so sensible as post-processing RGB images coming from a color sensor.
In other words, if you look at the M9M images (for example in DPreview) they are certainly good in terms of resolution and details, but they look pretty dull to me. Good BW images are rarely that because of brute IQ, rather thanks to careful contrast and tonal balance (some grain often helps too), which require skillful filtering if done the optical way, and is much more flexible and easy if done in PP (SilverFX does a great job, for example).
Leica M9M files (or any monochrome RAW) simply don't give you so much freedom in post-processing. Not to talk about highlights headroom, which simply does not exist in images coming from BW sensor (even in RAW).
This is of course a matter of taste (as almost everything when talking about photography), and I wonder if I am the only one thinking so...
05-15-2012, 12:59 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paolo.Bosetti Quote
and I wonder if I am the only one thinking so...
Nope said the same thing in the comment above.
I'm sure there are some true B&W photographers that have learned what kind of colour filters to use according the situation, also the colour of the light becomes critical.

Am i lazy when i say it's too much work...
05-15-2012, 01:03 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Nope said the same thing in the comment above.
Jeez... I thought I read the whole thread before posting, but apparently I missed exactly your comment! sorry about that!

05-15-2012, 04:34 PM   #24
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I do not understand the desire for monochrome. Help?
05-15-2012, 05:11 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Markbrumbaugh Quote
I do not understand the desire for monochrome. Help?
1) Nostalgia, ie retro-lust.
2) The promise of lower ISO and more resolution.
3) Amnesia of optical filter requirements.
4) Upward mobility, ie Leica-lust.
5) The voices in our heads...
05-15-2012, 05:40 PM   #26
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I have a BW TV. It s special in the vaulted 4X3 format. A collectors item with a bulging tube. Full format 19 inch diagonal sensor. $5000.
05-15-2012, 07:03 PM   #27
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Leica is just trying to sell the Emperor new clothes imo.

Partly based on truth (color filter; AA filter), partly based on fluff BS (that its the best thing since sliced bread).


K-01 and super glue (to destroy the menu buttons) after setting them to B/W of your taste cost only $600+$1 (for the glue).
05-15-2012, 07:10 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Nostalgia, ie retro-lust
I am so old... my photo as a child is B&W and my daughter's baby portrait is B&W....
I have handled huge B&W prints and i love them. I also love the work of Henri...

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
The voices in our heads...
B&W, B&W, B&W.....
I am hearing a different kind of B&W, monochrome.....
05-16-2012, 12:22 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bestzoom Quote
I am so old... my photo as a child is B&W and my daughter's baby portrait is B&W....
I have handled huge B&W prints and i love them. I also love the work of Henri...
I am a huge fan of B&W. But I think that the choices of taking a good B&W shot are much higher with a color sensor + post processing than with a B&W sensor + optical filtering. And I am pretty sure that without optical filtering, there is simply no way that you can get consistently better shots, not even with a M9M, for purely technical reasons.
05-16-2012, 03:54 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
if you want to do B&W you might as well get a SLR for a few bucks from ebay and develop the film at home, much more fun if you ask me.
I have my Nikon SLR sitting in my house somewhere with a few Nikkor lenses. I am just too lazy and busy with kids these days. I will love to be able to do it again.
Unfortunately i have thrown away my perfectly functioning enlarger and all the film developing kit. sigh!

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Leica is just trying to sell the Emperor new clothes imo.
You may be right. I have not handled the M9M but the output at high ISO (10000) on the web has not really impressed me so far.
I wonder why is silver EP included if M9M is a true monochrome.... ?to justify the price

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
K-01 and super glue (to destroy the menu buttons) after setting them to B/W of your taste cost only $600+$1 (for the glue).
I would rather get another K5 instead. I have difficulties with a camera full of menus, submenus, submenus and OK, like a Canon. Even Nikon is not easy to use for first time owners. Pentax on the other hand, is the most user friendly SLR on the market. Coming from Canikon, K5 is so much easier to use.
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