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05-25-2012, 11:19 AM   #1
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Problem with downlading K-5 HDR RAW files to computer

Yesterday, I took a series of pictures with my K-5, using the HDR "auto" setting, where the camera takes 3 pictures at different exposures quickly and then combines them into one HDR picture, resulting in a JPG file. Then in the review mode, I pressed the AE-L button and confirmed to save the picture as an additional RAW file (DNG selected).

All well and good until I downloaded the pics onto my computer, using Windows XP and my USP2 port. The JPG files downloaded, but the supposedly-saved DNG RAW files did not, even though I confirmed that they were present on my memory card in the review mode. I was really disappointed, because I wanted to tweak the RAW files into even better shots.

When I take a regular (non-HDR) JPG shot, when I press the AE-L button and confirm, the resultant RAW file is easily downloaded to my computer. It appears that when an HDR shot is made, this procedure disallows the downloading of the RAW file. It may have something to do with the fact that an HDR shot is a composite, something like a regular shot with attached RAW file. I don't know.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

John

05-25-2012, 11:33 AM   #2
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You can't convert JPEG to RAW as far as i know....

Also the jpeg HDR is already fully processed by the camera if you want to tweak it you need to shoot in for example Radiance or JPEG-XR and so far as i know no camera can do that so you're stuck with brackting and using RAW files and at home combine those shots into a HDR.
05-25-2012, 11:48 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
You can't convert JPEG to RAW as far as i know....

Also the jpeg HDR is already fully processed by the camera if you want to tweak it you need to shoot in for example Radiance or JPEG-XR and so far as i know no camera can do that so you're stuck with brackting and using RAW files and at home combine those shots into a HDR.
Thanks - the K-5 doesn't "convert" a JPG into RAW, it simply allows saving the RAW file (already existing in the camera's memory) which was used to generate the JPG by pressing the AE-L button in the review mode as long as that was the last shot taken. It's a nice feature I've used often. It just doesn't seem to save the RAW file that exists after taking a JPG pic in HDR mode.

John
05-25-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by PALADIN85020 Quote
Thanks - the K-5 doesn't "convert" a JPG into RAW, it simply allows saving the RAW file (already existing in the camera's memory) which was used to generate the JPG by pressing the AE-L button in the review mode as long as that was the last shot taken. It's a nice feature I've used often. It just doesn't seem to save the RAW file that exists after taking a JPG pic in HDR mode.
It is a nice feature of the K-5, however it is saving the contents of the image buffer, which I don't think is quite big enough to hold all 3 RAW files, the 3 JPEGs it uses for fusion (the in-camera "HDR") and the resulting JPEG. Weird that you saw original DNGs on the card - mine doesn't even show that. Camera must be flushing the RAW files before making the HDR JPEG result...

05-25-2012, 11:54 AM   #5
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If you want HDR raws, use auto bracketing instead and then combine the photos on your desktop instead.
05-25-2012, 11:59 AM   #6
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I just tried this out of curiosity and it works for me. I took an HDR shot, pressed the AE-L button, and the camera saved a raw file. Connected the camera to my PC via the USB cable and downloaded both images, an 8MB jpg and a 20MB pef. Didn't open the pef file because I don't have any raw software installed, so I can't comment on its contents, but it is there and retrievable.
05-25-2012, 12:16 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by KyPainter Quote
I just tried this out of curiosity and it works for me. I took an HDR shot, pressed the AE-L button, and the camera saved a raw file. Connected the camera to my PC via the USB cable and downloaded both images, an 8MB jpg and a 20MB pef. Didn't open the pef file because I don't have any raw software installed, so I can't comment on its contents, but it is there and retrievable.
I tried using the PEF format - I was using DNG in AV mode. Same result. Selected the HDR (3 shots combined in camera), pressed the AE-L button, camera showed saving. However, review showed no attached RAW file, and when I erased the shot, it didn't ask if I wanted to delete the RAW file, it just deleted the JPG. When you say you took an HDR shot, did you used the 3-shot overlay in the camera, or just HDR enhanced?

I think that the buffer is overloaded when this is tried - 3 RAW files in HDR mode plus 3 combined JPG files are just too much to save from the buffer. I suspect that each component RAW file is deleted before combination in the camera, hence there is nothing to save, in spite of what the camera says it's doing. If you want to save an additional RAW file from the last shot, it can't be an HDR (combined in the camera) shot.

John

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 05-25-2012 at 01:02 PM.
05-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
It is a nice feature of the K-5, however it is saving the contents of the image buffer, which I don't think is quite big enough to hold all 3 RAW files, the 3 JPEGs it uses for fusion (the in-camera "HDR") and the resulting JPEG. Weird that you saw original DNGs on the card - mine doesn't even show that. Camera must be flushing the RAW files before making the HDR JPEG result...
I believe that's the reason. Good deduction.

John

05-25-2012, 01:11 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by PALADIN85020 Quote
When you say you took an HDR shot, did you used the 3-shot overlay in the camera, or just HDR enhanced?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What I did was, as best I could tell by your first post, just what you did. I set my camera to HDR AUTO and pressed the shutter button. The camera fired three shots, processed them into an HDR image, and saved it as a jpg. I then pressed the AE-L button and saved the raw file from whence that jpg came. Finally I copied both files, the jpg and pef, to my computer. I just now repeated the same thing with DNG format instead of PEF.

As I said, I don't have any way to view a raw file, be it PEF or DNG, so I can't comment on whether the raw file actually contains any more or different information than the jpg does, but I can successfully save the raw file and transfer it to my computer.

I will note that, when I save the raw file it does not have the same name as the jpg. The file name is incremented by one and the appropriate (pef or dng) extension is added.
05-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by KyPainter Quote
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What I did was, as best I could tell by your first post, just what you did. I set my camera to HDR AUTO and pressed the shutter button. The camera fired three shots, processed them into an HDR image, and saved it as a jpg. I then pressed the AE-L button and saved the raw file from whence that jpg came. Finally I copied both files, the jpg and pef, to my computer. I just now repeated the same thing with DNG format instead of PEF.

As I said, I don't have any way to view a raw file, be it PEF or DNG, so I can't comment on whether the raw file actually contains any more or different information than the jpg does, but I can successfully save the raw file and transfer it to my computer.

I will note that, when I save the raw file it does not have the same name as the jpg. The file name is incremented by one and the appropriate (pef or dng) extension is added.
You did exactly what I did, with a different result. Very interesting. I wonder if we have different buffer capacities. I have software ver. 1.12 (supposedly the latest).

John
05-25-2012, 01:23 PM   #11
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I have 1.13
05-26-2012, 01:58 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
It is a nice feature of the K-5, however it is saving the contents of the image buffer, which I don't think is quite big enough to hold all 3 RAW files, the 3 JPEGs it uses for fusion (the in-camera "HDR") and the resulting JPEG. Weird that you saw original DNGs on the card - mine doesn't even show that. Camera must be flushing the RAW files before making the HDR JPEG result...
The buffer is large enough to hold 20 photos or so but it's most likely flushed so that only at most 1 photo is in the buffer, i doubt it will ever hold 3 photos in the buffer for this.
05-26-2012, 06:03 AM   #13
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The save as raw part works for me, but as far as I can tell it doesn't hold more information then a normal single raw file. So itīs probably just one of the three pictures taken during the hdr sequence, probably the last one.
05-26-2012, 08:28 AM   #14
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It could be the last image taken, but it could also be the pre-jpg processed image. Three in-camera raw images are processed and combined according to some unknown algorithm and are saved as a jpg file. Are they processed and combined directly into a reduced bit depth image which is then saved as a jpg? Are they processed and combined into a full bit depth image which is then saved as a jpg? Depending on the implementation, you might have the HDR image sans whatever default sharpening (etc) was done in the jpg conversion, or you might have that plus those extra bits of dynamic range.
05-26-2012, 09:13 AM   #15
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I think the manual clear states it's the last photo taken, so it's the last of the three photos taken for the HDR most likely.

beside that, ever worked with real HDR files, you're working with 32bit then and i never saw a camera spew out a 32bit RAW file before...
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