K5 and WR Lens seals, also useful for dust protection?

Origineelreclamebord · 06-25-2012, 11:42 AM

Hi everyone,

Just a question on the seals of WR lenses and rubber seals of the K5. I know they help to keep out water to an impressive degree. However, I was wondering if they also help to keep out dust?

The reason I'm asking is because recently I've got some dust in the viewfinder of my current camera after a shoot in dusty conditions (a race day with RC cars on an offroad track). Also, I've noticed some dust is on the sensor again only some 4 months after having the sensor cleaned (and to be honest I haven't used it a lot since it was cleaned). I'm trying to find out how much the weather sealing would add for me to a camera, as I think dust protection is more crucial to me than the water protection (even though I quite like the idea that I can take it out on a rainy day).

Heie · 06-25-2012, 12:30 PM

I have had my K-7 and now K-5 COVERED in dust, and they both regularly enjoy showers with me to clean off

I am currently deployed to Afghanistan, and if you need any help understanding the fineness of the dust here, think of baby powder lol.

Check out this picture from a dust storm:

K-5, DA* 50-135

I know you said dust with WR seals. I trust the DA* line 100% - I have been meaning to bury my camera and one of my DA*'s in the fine powder to help market Pentax to the naysayers lol. But I wouldn't trust it with a simply WR lens. I think it is sealed just fine, and my DA 100mm Macro WR hasn't had dust intrude, but that doesn't mean that I don't avoid the situation if I can just in case. Rain with the WR lenses, though? Bring it on baby!

But a lens like the 18-135 WR, for instance (assuming you would get that first and not a DA* lens off the bat) will most DEFINITELY give better protection than the Canikon competition against dust. No doubt in my mind. But I haven't developed enough confidence to say the WR line is as dust resistant. First, it doesn't claim to be, and second, it's mainly designed for water intrusion. Some would argue that water intrusion is a harder monster to battle, though.

Regardless, this is my bottom line after all that: the DA* series are completely sealed, and I really, honestly, would have no problem dumping a bottle of baby powder on a K-5+DA* combo, and then rinsing it off in the shower or under a faucet/hose. It wouldn't be the first time cleaning it that way. Honestly. The WR series, while will offer you significantly greater protection from intrusion than the standard Canikon offering, including dust, it is not to the same caliber of sealing. On a scale of 1-10, if the DA* lens series is a 10 for sealing, and the Canikon's are 0 (select SUPER expensive L and Nikkor line not included), I'd rate the WR as a 7, maybe 8-9 if you are adamant on not zooming too much when it's covered in dust.

So in your situation, I would most definitely consider the Pentax K-5, or wait a bit for the new K-30 which seems to be EXTREMELY promising. I have never had dust as bad as you are claiming in your camera, sealed lens or not. Remember, the body is amazingly sealed as well, so you don't get any intrusion through the body itself, including through the viewfinder.

I hope that helped.

Also, if you are curious, I have chronicled my journey thus far in Afghanistan pictorially, and here is the latest update, number 9: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/190291-update-number-nine-my...eployment.html All the other ones 1-8 can be accessed from there

Respectfully,
Heie

JinDesu · 06-25-2012, 12:34 PM

Generally most lenses and cameras are pretty dust resistant already, unless you encounter very fine dust. Dust mainly gets into the camera when the lens is off, i.e. when you switch lenses.

WR lenses have extra seals to restrict dust from entering the lens and the camera at the camera mount. It's a lot more protection than non-WR lenses.

ruggiex · 06-25-2012, 12:43 PM

Comparing the amount of dust particles in my DA 55-300mm vs DA18-135mm after about a year of use... Yes, it definitely makes it more dust resilient. Particles got into my 55-300mm from just regular hikes. My theory is that it's mostly from when I retract the tube without completely dusting it off every time. The 18-135mm would just push most of it out as I retract the lens. DA*50-135mm otoh... well nothing is exposed so nothing is really getting in...

Origineelreclamebord · 06-25-2012, 01:05 PM

Sounds good

Impressive story Heie.

I'm sure the K5's direct competitors are ok at shielding dust and water, at least lots better than my Sony A200 and the two lenses I have for it. One of the lenses (the 18-70mm one) has such an open construction, I was honestly pretty shocked to see it. The only dust repelling feature on it is a fine brush-like material that 'touches' the sliding part. The problem is, I had visible dust on the sliding part, and after sliding in and out, the dust is still in the same spot!

So much for a physical dust barrier then! The other lens doesn't even have a system like this visible from the outside. I don't mean to say it isn't there, but after one day of shooting and the first dust on the sensor again I don't feel confident it is actually that good at shielding dust from it's guts.

Despite being better though, I'm not sure about the K5's direct competition being as well sealed as the K5

I think I'll give it a final try in the near camera store soon and make a decision on it.

As for the K30, I know it may be good waiting for the first reviews and a showroom model in my local store, but I don't see it's advantages: The K5 seems to me like it's more durable, and as I prefer manual shooting I don't think the improved auto-functions are a big plus for me. And then lastly, look at the K5: I've yet to see another DSLR that looks this good!

Edit (30-06-2012):
I've just bought a Pentax K5!

I got the 18-55 and 50-200 lenses with it, I tried those and the 18-135 in the store, and I noticed the 18-135 though sharp in the middle but seemed to have more chromatic aberration than the 50-200, and the 18-55 seems of a lesser quality but only added 40 euros to the final price (for that price, I can't really go wrong with it for now, right?)

Over the next few days/weeks I'll find out more about this camera, and I may even be photographing a race with RC cars again, a good test for those claims made because of the rubber seals.

Origineelreclamebord · 07-27-2012, 11:54 AM

It's been a while since my last post... I've been busy (Not just camera work by the way). Anyway, in the weekend I went to the RC event, it was kind of the ultimate 'first test' for the Pentax. Here are the things I found out:

- AF can't keep up with the cars at short distance on high speed areas.
- AF can keep up in the slower sections and at larger distances.
- I need to stop shooting in 'M' mode when the lighting conditions change between sunny and suddenly cloudy (when a small cloud passes by)

- It is a very unnatural feeling standing in (mild) rain with your camera for the first time!
- Pentax' claims on the weather sealing haven't been tested hardcore, but nonetheless tested, and it held up flawlessly.
- The 'Continuous' shooting mode is quite addictive (7FPS is actually useful, I never used the 3FPS Continuous on my last camera, it didn't work for catching 'the shot').
- The Mode Dial Lock Button hasn't held me back or annoyed me so far (like I was afraid of before purchase).
- I should make more use of the RAW/PEF format, it saves a lot of time doing the same tweaks in Photoshop that would just take seconds in Lightroom.
- The Viewfinder is O-K for now, but for real decent MF shots I'll definetely get one of those magnifying eye pieces.

2800 clicks is a lot to get in just one week of owning the camera (even if most of them were thanks/due to using the 'Continuous' mode), and they are testament to the fact that I really, REALLY like this camera

Now for the business bit: The actual shots:

More pictures can be found here and here.

I need to learn the camera a bit more: I tweaked the contrast and color balance a bit here and there, and it's obvious that I can unlock more potential now in the pictures, however I do have to get used to this and change my way of using my camera. This includes getting to know the camera a bit more. I'm looking forward to that

JinDesu · 07-27-2012, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Origineelreclamebord

It's been a while since my last post... I've been busy (Not just camera work by the way). Anyway, in the weekend I went to the RC event, it was kind of the ultimate 'first test' for the Pentax. Here are the things I found out:

2800 clicks is a lot to get in just one week of owning the camera (even if most of them were thanks/due to using the 'Continuous' mode), and they are testament to the fact that I really, REALLY like this camera

I need to learn the camera a bit more: I tweaked the contrast and color balance a bit here and there, and it's obvious that I can unlock more potential now in the pictures, however I do have to get used to this and change my way of using my camera. This includes getting to know the camera a bit more. I'm looking forward to that

If I may suggest a few things:

- AF can't keep up with the cars at short distance on high speed areas.
These RC cars have amazing acceleration and speed for their size, most cameras would have issues. Shooting parallel or pre-focusing on a landmark will give you lots more keepers.
- I need to stop shooting in 'M' mode when the lighting conditions change between sunny and suddenly cloudy (when a small cloud passes by)

Sounds like a perfect time to use Tav mode (auto-iso!)
- It is a very unnatural feeling standing in (mild) rain with your camera for the first time!
I'm jealous of your experience

Origineelreclamebord · 07-27-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

If I may suggest a few things:

- AF can't keep up with the cars at short distance on high speed areas.
These RC cars have amazing acceleration and speed for their size, most cameras would have issues. Shooting parallel or pre-focusing on a landmark will give you lots more keepers.
- I need to stop shooting in 'M' mode when the lighting conditions change between sunny and suddenly cloudy (when a small cloud passes by)

Sounds like a perfect time to use Tav mode (auto-iso!)
- It is a very unnatural feeling standing in (mild) rain with your camera for the first time!
I'm jealous of your experience

Thanks

I know most cameras would struggle putting those RC cars in focus. With my Sony A200 I quickly learned that the best way to get them in focus was indeed focussing on a fixed distance in the track, tracking cars within your sights and shooting when they are in focus. Therefor it's so hard catching exciting, scary or dangerous moments in such a race (crashes, overtaking manoeuvres, etc), and because of that even more rewarding if you do get the shots of those crucial moments!

I've never used the Tav mode before, but it sounds very interesting indeed: I'd like to keep the shutter speed shorter than 1/500th of a second at all times (depending on where on the track of course, on the high grip astroturf I was shooting at 1/1000th and shorter pretty much the whole time), the aperture between F5.6 and F11 (where I prefer an F rating around F8-F11 to maximize the percentage of in-focus shots without losing too much light), and the ISO at 3200 or lower (I'm so glad this sensor gives so little noise, it's allows so much more freedom in the aperture and shutter department)

May I ask what you mean with being jealous of my experience? Did your camera break down in the rain then? Or are you used to photographing in the rain?

JinDesu · 07-27-2012, 12:59 PM

I don't have a k-5/k-30 yet, so I cannot do what you did

In general, when shooting action, you want to use Sv so you can maintain the shutter speed you want. The problem is that sometimes this doesn't allow you the aperture you want.

Tav will vary the ISO when you set the shutter speed and aperture you want, and since the k-5 has amazing high ISO, you don't need to worry too much about cloud cover popping up. In addition, I feel that a noisy shot is better than a blurry shot or a shot with too little DOF.

BlackRockBacon · 07-28-2012, 07:23 AM

I too can vouch for the K-5's weather sealing. I have taken it to Burning Man 2011 with a DA 18-135 Lens, and they both performed flawlessly hanging at my side on a Black Rapid RS7 most of the week.

(links to images from my alternate flickr account)
Playafied K-5 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Dusty K-5 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

06-25-2012, 11:42 AM	#1
Origineelreclamebord Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 33	K5 and WR Lens seals, also useful for dust protection? Hi everyone, Just a question on the seals of WR lenses and rubber seals of the K5. I know they help to keep out water to an impressive degree. However, I was wondering if they also help to keep out dust? The reason I'm asking is because recently I've got some dust in the viewfinder of my current camera after a shoot in dusty conditions (a race day with RC cars on an offroad track). Also, I've noticed some dust is on the sensor again only some 4 months after having the sensor cleaned (and to be honest I haven't used it a lot since it was cleaned). I'm trying to find out how much the weather sealing would add for me to a camera, as I think dust protection is more crucial to me than the water protection (even though I quite like the idea that I can take it out on a rainy day).

06-25-2012, 01:05 PM	#5
Origineelreclamebord Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 33 Original Poster	Sounds good Impressive story Heie. I'm sure the K5's direct competitors are ok at shielding dust and water, at least lots better than my Sony A200 and the two lenses I have for it. One of the lenses (the 18-70mm one) has such an open construction, I was honestly pretty shocked to see it. The only dust repelling feature on it is a fine brush-like material that 'touches' the sliding part. The problem is, I had visible dust on the sliding part, and after sliding in and out, the dust is still in the same spot! So much for a physical dust barrier then! The other lens doesn't even have a system like this visible from the outside. I don't mean to say it isn't there, but after one day of shooting and the first dust on the sensor again I don't feel confident it is actually that good at shielding dust from it's guts. Despite being better though, I'm not sure about the K5's direct competition being as well sealed as the K5 I think I'll give it a final try in the near camera store soon and make a decision on it. As for the K30, I know it may be good waiting for the first reviews and a showroom model in my local store, but I don't see it's advantages: The K5 seems to me like it's more durable, and as I prefer manual shooting I don't think the improved auto-functions are a big plus for me. And then lastly, look at the K5: I've yet to see another DSLR that looks this good! Edit (30-06-2012): I've just bought a Pentax K5! I got the 18-55 and 50-200 lenses with it, I tried those and the 18-135 in the store, and I noticed the 18-135 though sharp in the middle but seemed to have more chromatic aberration than the 50-200, and the 18-55 seems of a lesser quality but only added 40 euros to the final price (for that price, I can't really go wrong with it for now, right?) Over the next few days/weeks I'll find out more about this camera, and I may even be photographing a race with RC cars again, a good test for those claims made because of the rubber seals. Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 06-30-2012 at 06:41 AM.

07-27-2012, 11:54 AM	#6
Origineelreclamebord Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 33 Original Poster	It's been a while since my last post... I've been busy (Not just camera work by the way). Anyway, in the weekend I went to the RC event, it was kind of the ultimate 'first test' for the Pentax. Here are the things I found out: - AF can't keep up with the cars at short distance on high speed areas. - AF can keep up in the slower sections and at larger distances. - I need to stop shooting in 'M' mode when the lighting conditions change between sunny and suddenly cloudy (when a small cloud passes by) - It is a very unnatural feeling standing in (mild) rain with your camera for the first time! - Pentax' claims on the weather sealing haven't been tested hardcore, but nonetheless tested, and it held up flawlessly. - The 'Continuous' shooting mode is quite addictive (7FPS is actually useful, I never used the 3FPS Continuous on my last camera, it didn't work for catching 'the shot'). - The Mode Dial Lock Button hasn't held me back or annoyed me so far (like I was afraid of before purchase). - I should make more use of the RAW/PEF format, it saves a lot of time doing the same tweaks in Photoshop that would just take seconds in Lightroom. - The Viewfinder is O-K for now, but for real decent MF shots I'll definetely get one of those magnifying eye pieces. 2800 clicks is a lot to get in just one week of owning the camera (even if most of them were thanks/due to using the 'Continuous' mode), and they are testament to the fact that I really, REALLY like this camera Now for the business bit: The actual shots: More pictures can be found here and here. I need to learn the camera a bit more: I tweaked the contrast and color balance a bit here and there, and it's obvious that I can unlock more potential now in the pictures, however I do have to get used to this and change my way of using my camera. This includes getting to know the camera a bit more. I'm looking forward to that Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 07-27-2012 at 12:02 PM.

07-27-2012, 12:55 PM	#8
Origineelreclamebord Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 33 Original Poster	Originally posted by JinDesu If I may suggest a few things: - AF can't keep up with the cars at short distance on high speed areas. These RC cars have amazing acceleration and speed for their size, most cameras would have issues. Shooting parallel or pre-focusing on a landmark will give you lots more keepers. - I need to stop shooting in 'M' mode when the lighting conditions change between sunny and suddenly cloudy (when a small cloud passes by) *Sounds like a perfect time to use Tav mode (auto-iso!)* - It is a very unnatural feeling standing in (mild) rain with your camera for the first time! I'm jealous of your experience Thanks I know most cameras would struggle putting those RC cars in focus. With my Sony A200 I quickly learned that the best way to get them in focus was indeed focussing on a fixed distance in the track, tracking cars within your sights and shooting when they are in focus. Therefor it's so hard catching exciting, scary or dangerous moments in such a race (crashes, overtaking manoeuvres, etc), and because of that even more rewarding if you do get the shots of those crucial moments! I've never used the Tav mode before, but it sounds very interesting indeed: I'd like to keep the shutter speed shorter than 1/500th of a second at all times (depending on where on the track of course, on the high grip astroturf I was shooting at 1/1000th and shorter pretty much the whole time), the aperture between F5.6 and F11 (where I prefer an F rating around F8-F11 to maximize the percentage of in-focus shots without losing too much light), and the ISO at 3200 or lower (I'm so glad this sensor gives so little noise, it's allows so much more freedom in the aperture and shutter department) May I ask what you mean with being jealous of my experience? Did your camera break down in the rain then? Or are you used to photographing in the rain? Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 07-27-2012 at 01:33 PM.

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06-25-2012, 12:30 PM	#2
Heie Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 968	I have had my K-7 and now K-5 COVERED in dust, and they both regularly enjoy showers with me to clean off I am currently deployed to Afghanistan, and if you need any help understanding the fineness of the dust here, think of baby powder lol. Check out this picture from a dust storm: K-5, DA* 50-135 I know you said dust with WR seals. I trust the DA* line 100% - I have been meaning to bury my camera and one of my DA's in the fine powder to help market Pentax to the naysayers lol. But I wouldn't trust it with a simply WR lens. I think it is sealed just fine, and my DA 100mm Macro WR hasn't had dust intrude, but that doesn't mean that I don't avoid the situation if I can just in case. Rain with the WR lenses, though? Bring it on baby! But a lens like the 18-135 WR, for instance (assuming you would get that first and not a DA lens off the bat) will most DEFINITELY give better protection than the Canikon competition against dust. No doubt in my mind. But I haven't developed enough confidence to say the WR line is as dust resistant. First, it doesn't claim to be, and second, it's mainly designed for water intrusion. Some would argue that water intrusion is a harder monster to battle, though. Regardless, this is my bottom line after all that: the DA* series are completely sealed, and I really, honestly, would have no problem dumping a bottle of baby powder on a K-5+DA* combo, and then rinsing it off in the shower or under a faucet/hose. It wouldn't be the first time cleaning it that way. Honestly. The WR series, while will offer you significantly greater protection from intrusion than the standard Canikon offering, including dust, it is not to the same caliber of sealing. On a scale of 1-10, if the DA* lens series is a 10 for sealing, and the Canikon's are 0 (select SUPER expensive L and Nikkor line not included), I'd rate the WR as a 7, maybe 8-9 if you are adamant on not zooming too much when it's covered in dust. So in your situation, I would most definitely consider the Pentax K-5, or wait a bit for the new K-30 which seems to be EXTREMELY promising. I have never had dust as bad as you are claiming in your camera, sealed lens or not. Remember, the body is amazingly sealed as well, so you don't get any intrusion through the body itself, including through the viewfinder. I hope that helped. Also, if you are curious, I have chronicled my journey thus far in Afghanistan pictorially, and here is the latest update, number 9: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/190291-update-number-nine-my...eployment.html All the other ones 1-8 can be accessed from there Respectfully, Heie

06-25-2012, 12:34 PM	#3
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Generally most lenses and cameras are pretty dust resistant already, unless you encounter very fine dust. Dust mainly gets into the camera when the lens is off, i.e. when you switch lenses. WR lenses have extra seals to restrict dust from entering the lens and the camera at the camera mount. It's a lot more protection than non-WR lenses.

06-25-2012, 12:43 PM	#4
ruggiex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Bay Area Photos: Gallery Posts: 811	Comparing the amount of dust particles in my DA 55-300mm vs DA18-135mm after about a year of use... Yes, it definitely makes it more dust resilient. Particles got into my 55-300mm from just regular hikes. My theory is that it's mostly from when I retract the tube without completely dusting it off every time. The 18-135mm would just push most of it out as I retract the lens. DA*50-135mm otoh... well nothing is exposed so nothing is really getting in...

07-27-2012, 12:03 PM	#7
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by Origineelreclamebord It's been a while since my last post... I've been busy (Not just camera work by the way). Anyway, in the weekend I went to the RC event, it was kind of the ultimate 'first test' for the Pentax. Here are the things I found out: 2800 clicks is a lot to get in just one week of owning the camera (even if most of them were thanks/due to using the 'Continuous' mode), and they are testament to the fact that I really, REALLY like this camera I need to learn the camera a bit more: I tweaked the contrast and color balance a bit here and there, and it's obvious that I can unlock more potential now in the pictures, however I do have to get used to this and change my way of using my camera. This includes getting to know the camera a bit more. I'm looking forward to that If I may suggest a few things: - AF can't keep up with the cars at short distance on high speed areas. These RC cars have amazing acceleration and speed for their size, most cameras would have issues. Shooting parallel or pre-focusing on a landmark will give you lots more keepers. - I need to stop shooting in 'M' mode when the lighting conditions change between sunny and suddenly cloudy (when a small cloud passes by) *Sounds like a perfect time to use Tav mode (auto-iso!)* - It is a very unnatural feeling standing in (mild) rain with your camera for the first time! I'm jealous of your experience

07-27-2012, 12:59 PM	#9
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	I don't have a k-5/k-30 yet, so I cannot do what you did In general, when shooting action, you want to use Sv so you can maintain the shutter speed you want. The problem is that sometimes this doesn't allow you the aperture you want. Tav will vary the ISO when you set the shutter speed and aperture you want, and since the k-5 has amazing high ISO, you don't need to worry too much about cloud cover popping up. In addition, I feel that a noisy shot is better than a blurry shot or a shot with too little DOF.

07-28-2012, 07:23 AM	#10
BlackRockBacon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kentucky Photos: Gallery Posts: 128	I too can vouch for the K-5's weather sealing. I have taken it to Burning Man 2011 with a DA 18-135 Lens, and they both performed flawlessly hanging at my side on a Black Rapid RS7 most of the week. (links to images from my alternate flickr account) Playafied K-5 \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Dusty K-5 \| Flickr - Photo Sharing!