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08-13-2012, 04:35 PM   #31
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CMG: I'm coming from a similar place. I've been trying to get the best shots possible without PP (in terms of exposure, noise, etc) but am now considering learning some PP software (Lightroom probably, going by comments in this discussion). As a long time IT person, I'm not too fazed about the learning curve, but it seems to me that it's worth the effort in order to have more options in producing the end result (& also for salvaging those 'marginal' pictures too)...

08-13-2012, 07:38 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by tabl10s Quote
Where does Picasa rank among the PP crowd? I haven't really done any PP stuff yet, but I might slip to the darkside.
Picasa is not a raw editor, it is designed only for jpegs. It implements auto exposure, which is a serious limitation. As a jpeg editor, it is unconventional but quite powerful in what it can do. I find it extremely intuitive, much easier to use than most editors, but more limited too.

If you want to use Picasa, which I do for some things, shoot in raw, and convert to jpeg before processing in Picasa.
08-13-2012, 08:39 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by tonyrodgers Quote
CMG: I'm coming from a similar place. I've been trying to get the best shots possible without PP (in terms of exposure, noise, etc) but am now considering learning some PP software (Lightroom probably, going by comments in this discussion). As a long time IT person, I'm not too fazed about the learning curve, but it seems to me that it's worth the effort in order to have more options in producing the end result (& also for salvaging those 'marginal' pictures too)...
Yes, everyone seems to recommend LR. I don't have it, I sue Picasa for some tweaking. I'm not really IT oriented and while I'm sure, at least from what I've read, I would be able to learn LR just as anyone has. I suppose it depends on one's aesthetic and goals as a photographer. I mean, it seems to me that photographers have always taken alot of shots of a particular subject (if possible...unlike for example in street photography) in order to try and get the One shot that is the keeper, the one that expresses the idea, gets the message across to the viewer. I suppose this requires a focus to on technical photographic skill and composition, as well as patience and the desire to render the scene so that the view feels present there...I don't think these things can be manufactured by software no matter how skilled a PP practitioner one is. Again, for me, the idea of spending time at the computer to try to make my photos work after really giving little thought if any to the principles while shooting is a philosophy that doesn't seem to work for me at the moment. I've read tons of the back and forths on RAW v JPEG and I suppose the one things I've come away with is that most RAW shooters seem to agree that the luxury of RAW is that you can, not that everyone does, but that you be very lax at the time of shooting because you can make so many adjustments in PP. But what are you creating in PP in that situation? Many pro's say that if you are way off in your exposure, RAW PP cannot save the photo. That being said, it seems to me that while you may not be able to save the photo you can make it into something based on the photo. Again, I suppose it depends on what you are trying to do as a photographer. While PP is a necessary part of photography and it always has been in some form or another, I have a hard time agreeing with those that say the kind of "high level" PP that is practiced really part of photography in more traditional sense. That's not to say that work of non-traditionalists is not worthy of esteem, because it is, but at what point is it no longer photography, but rather an artistic expression based on a photograph? Again, I'm speaking for me and not judging here because I don't have the bona fides to really weigh in on anyone's aesthetic. For me, I'd prefer to have the least amount of computer time possible while getting the best exposure I can out of the camera utilizing my level of skill at the time I press the shutter release.
08-13-2012, 08:51 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
I think he knows quite well what brightness, contrast, white, black, shadows, highlights, noise and sharpness means
Maybe, I cannot speak for the OP only myself. And I had absolutely no idea what a white point or black point meant. Totally foreign language. Completely foreign concept. Shadows & highlights? shadows are things you hide in, highlights is what my wife has done to her hair. Noise? loud sounds that are annoying. Sharpness? no idea.

All I am saying, from personal experience, is that without understanding the basic concepts it is very hard to learn what the software does and why. But perhaps you are just smarter than me, or younger and able to learn better. It has been a long struggle for me and I still do not feel like I understand things. I have learned to move this slider this way to achieve this affect, that does not mean I really understand WHY I move that slider that way.

And the computer example was not about how the hardware works, it was about the concept of storing information. My father is very mechanical, he could probably do a good job of explaining the electrical and mechanical parts, he just could not understand the concept of a file that contains information that can be shown and manipulated. Hard to explain the problem to anyone who grew up with computers as we instinctively understand the concept.

But I fear we have hijacked the OP's thread, my apologies.

08-13-2012, 09:30 PM   #35
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What happens if I don't convert to JPEG?
08-13-2012, 10:01 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by tabl10s Quote
What happens if I don't convert to JPEG?
What happens if you never print a negative? Same thing. You can view the RAW on the screen, edit it to hearts content but that's it. If you want others to see the image, you need to convert it, either to jpeg, or tiff or into an actual print.
08-14-2012, 09:33 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Workflow is very easy, you start at the top and work your way to the bottom basically.
Sorry for not being precise. By workflow I meant the process from pressing a shutter to postin a JPG "somewhere". How I see it...

1. Think
2. Think
3.... guess what - Think
4. Press shutter
5. Check the picture/Pictures, remove visible garbage
...
6. Import to lightroom Unprocessed folder - everything by dates (some specials may have separate folders)
7. During import must do - add Meta Tags

And in general that is all. From time to time I review pictures, delete old unwanted. If requested, I export from RAW into one of the online services, or HD.

Unfortunatelly, I totally do not have albums, so If I want to view photos, I need to run Picassa for that. I feel that there is something terribly stupid in what I am doing, unfortunatelly, I have not found "process description" that would suite me.

Arghhhh yes. Backup photos and Lightroom DB into 2 drives that are in RAID 1. Just for case....
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