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09-10-2012, 04:05 PM   #16
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Ya, no one would want this version - i mean who would want higher resolution/sharper images? Who would actually want to improve a soft 2.8 wide open lens/shot into a sharp 2.8 wide open lens/shot?

Give me 10%+ across the res chart and I will gladly dish out the extra money...

09-10-2012, 04:23 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Ya, no one would want this version - i mean who would want higher resolution/sharper images? Who would actually want to improve a soft 2.8 wide open lens/shot into a sharp 2.8 wide open lens/shot?

Give me 10%+ across the res chart and I will gladly dish out the extra money...
Has anyone done a D800 to D800E comparison? 10% sounds a bit high.
09-10-2012, 04:34 PM   #18
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i haven't seen one, but i would venture to guess for marketing purposes pentax will probably show one or show some numbers...
09-10-2012, 04:54 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Has anyone done a D800 to D800E comparison?
DPR has one

Falconeye has also done some tests
QuoteQuote:
"As a consequence, the difference between a D800 and D800E isn't as large as one may think: in a controlled environment, the D800 images can be sharpened to the level of the D800E. The downside is that it can produce some false colors too, although less likely and to a lesser extent.

As a rule of thumb, we found that (assuming 100% amount, in Lightroom terms) subtracting about 0.5 px from the sharpening radius used for a D800 image produces comparable sharpness and acceptable results."
Even Ken Rockwell has some tests that don't show visibly significant resolution improvements.

09-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #20
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I want it

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Nobody, really, but it's a great way to release a new product at no added cost.
If you shoot RAW then you can deal with moire effects in post production. For wide-angle landscape shooting having no AA filter is a big plus.
09-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #21
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Moire is less of a problem generally the higher the mpix. Is 16 enough not to have lots of moire?

Also it's going to depend a lot on what you shoot. Wedding shooters would not want the one without as suits are going to have lots of pretty patterns on them, whereas landscapers would probably love the extra sharpness.
09-10-2012, 08:09 PM   #22
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Thanks for the info and links. Makes much more sense now. For my purposes, plain ole K-5 II is plenty sufficient. Now if only I had some money...
09-11-2012, 05:50 AM   #23
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OH, well if Nikon D800 FF cameras have it.... it must be OK then. Maybe Pentax isn't so stupid after all.

09-11-2012, 06:08 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
DPR has one

Falconeye has also done some tests


Even Ken Rockwell has some tests that don't show visibly significant resolution improvements.

Ken Rockwell's summary says it all. If you want good pictures or good video, get the D800. If you are a pixel peeping nut who values pixels more than pictures, get the D800E. Same for the K-5 II vs K-5 IIs. I see the IIs as nothing more than saying "us too" to a questionable feature that has only rare utility in very special situations, and is otherwise disadvantaged.
09-11-2012, 06:39 AM   #25
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More on Moire...

Moir
09-11-2012, 06:45 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike V Quote
Ken Rockwell's summary says it all. If you want good pictures or good video, get the D800. If you are a pixel peeping nut who values pixels more than pictures, get the D800E. Same for the K-5 II vs K-5 IIs. I see the IIs as nothing more than saying "us too" to a questionable feature that has only rare utility in very special situations, and is otherwise disadvantaged.
Agreeing with Ken Rockwell is a treacherous path.
09-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I would use the AA-filterless version. Many people have posted shots from the D800E that show repeating patterns without moire.
And I've seen feather detail in birds taken with the D800E which showed clear moire and compared that to the D800 which had none. It is a bit of a dice roll though.

With the Nikon I went for the D800 - because it is still incredibly sharp. For the K5II I will go for the K5IIs when it comes time to replace my K5 (say around Dec/Jan) !
09-11-2012, 10:45 AM   #28
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From what I have read, it is much easier to sharpen the image to acceptable levels, even for pixel peepers, than it is to remove moire (this echos what Rawr posted above).
09-11-2012, 12:08 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pepe Guitarra Quote
An anti-aliasing filter is a filter used before a signal sampler, to restrict the bandwidth of a signal to approximately satisfy the sampling theorem. Since the theorem states that unambiguous interpretation of the signal from its samples is possible when the power of frequencies above the Nyquist frequency is zero, a real anti-aliasing filter can generally not completely satisfy the theorem. A realizable anti-aliasing filter will typically permit some aliasing to occur; the amount of aliasing that does occur depends on how good the filter is and what the frequency content of the input signal is.
Anti-aliasing filters are commonly used at the input of digital signal processing systems, for example in sound digitization systems; similar filters are used as reconstruction filters at the output of such systems, for example in music players. In the latter case, the filter is to prevent aliasing in the conversion of samples back to a continuous signal, where again perfect stop-band rejection would be required to guarantee zero aliasing.
The theoretical impossibility of realizing perfect filters is not much of an impediment in practice, though practical considerations do lead to system design choices such as oversampling to make it easier to realize "good enough" anti-aliasing filters.
-----------------
can someone explain what this mean?
Nyquist Frequency is ideally taken at twice highest frequency you wish to sample (that is why CD's sample at 44kHz as one can hear to about 20kHz). The practical issue at hand is that if the repetition of the pattern on the sensor is the same order of magnitude as the pixel pitch, you will have strange banding (moire). The AA filter blurs this image to reduce moire. For MF cameras, the MP count is high enough so that a very dense pattern is needed to induce Moire. When the pattern is so dense, the effect of moire is too fine to notice. Nikon with the D800 has got to the stage of MP count that an AA filter is almost not required for patterned images. I suspect that 16MP is too low to dispense with an AA filter without introducing other problems. I'm keen to see a back to back comparison of the K5II and K5IIs.

What interests me from this is why we are still resorting to physical AA filters and not by means of optical post processing on the sensor / processor. If the physical AA filter is removed, surely more light could get to the sensor and thus reduce the high ISO noise (by improving signal to noise ratio).

(Sorry; this is a classic case that I think I understand enough for myself, but not enough to explain to others... It comes from extrapolating my understanding of audio sampling theory to video)
09-11-2012, 12:49 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ironlionzion Quote
It's for landscape/nature photographers who want the extra resolution. Repeating patterns like cloth, carpet, etc aren't really a problem out in nature.
The worse case of moire I've had to deal with is with bird feathers ! Next to impossible to remove in PP without loosing all the details. That was on a K10D which has a weak AA filter. 16MPix with no AA filter may be OK, we'll have to see the test results I guess. If not worse than K10D, then it may be worth it.

Last edited by regor; 09-11-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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