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09-11-2012, 08:56 AM   #31
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Hm. I think this isnt amazingly good marketing. Here is a diagram:

Introduction of K5II
x = number of owners

Current K5 owners
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx

Current K7
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx

End result of K7 owners upgrading and HAPPY k5 owners sticking with their old camera:

K5 owners after photokina
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx

k7 owners after photokina
xx
xx
xx

K5II owners after photokina
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx


NOW. If Pentax had released a FF K3....

K5 owners after photokina
xx
xx
xx

k7 owners after photokina
0

K3 owners after photokina (double the sales)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


As it stands, we are all happy owners of K5. I wont be buying a new K5...so ....i am happy my camera is still relevant - it wont give Pentax my money, so I disagree that this is a great move.

09-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #32
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As I recall, Nikon and Canon have done the same thing with some of their cameras. The K-5 II is a placeholder, whose purpose is to maintain interest in the brand, while the K-3 and other cameras are under development. It should appeal to several groups: owners of older Pentax cameras; people looking to move up to a DSLR for the first time; and even a few switchers from other brands. As usual, there is a great deal of moaning and groaning over the K-5 II falling short of expectations, with the underlying assumption being that the designers and engineers at Pentax/Ricoh are a bunch of dolts. They are not, and we should give them credit for knowing their own business better than we do.

Rob
09-11-2012, 09:05 AM   #33
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If you not happy , you should stay on the other threads , there enough of thatin Pentax Forum. And dont bother us with any FF stuff, most of us dont need it and wont need it as most of the non Pentax buyer also
09-11-2012, 09:34 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote

Edit: I have to say after reading all the moaning about slow AF on Pentax cameras and how it ought to be fixed and blah blah blah, they finally work on it and what do I hear now...more moaning about how this isn't much of an upgrade...yikes will we ever be happy with Pentax?
Well we don't know the full stats yet, if it's just a K5 with updated AF or a upgraded K30 then i understand the moaning of K5 owners who where hoping for something to replace there K5 as far as we know now the mkII isn't worth the upgrade for most.
I shoot mostly with manual focus so for me it totally miss the mark but sadly Pentax can not look at just me, I'm sure many K20D and K7 owners will be happy with the mkII.


Last edited by Anvh; 09-11-2012 at 09:46 AM.
09-11-2012, 09:34 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
is that, regardless of all the bitching and moaning, an excellent camera just got more excellent. Not only that, but this means stuff like the D-BG4 will not be abandoned soon like what happened when the K20D/DBG2 was replaced by the K-7/D-BG4. For those of us, like me, who own a K-5 it is confirmation that the model is a DSLR to be reckoned with - even the "old" K-5, even now.

Furthermore, what would you guys rather have: the demise of Pentax because of dedicating sparse resources to development of brandnew models without the market share to have some long-term income guarantee.

I say this is one hell of a smart move. Maintaining the K-5's body and innards, as well as going after those things in its design that could be improved, allows a much better use of company funds while concentrating on the "other criticism" that is heard in today's market ("Pentax doesn't have a decent lens lineup").

In the optics you see the same market-driven thinking with the 18-270 from Tamron. That kind of range always has its limitations so why waste R&D on what basically is a consumer lens? At least now its available, on less argument for Joe Consumer to not go Pentax. The real development funds went to the 560mm which most definitely has a different target population.

As to Pentax spilling users "from the top" - that certainly is an issue but as long as the brand as a whole is repositioned so that it attracts more middle -ground photographers like photography-enthusiasts, weekend-professionals and serious travellers/bloggers as well as a dedicated crowd of Pentaxians, that should not be so disastrous.

All in all we've been complaining about Pentax's marketing but people, this is what smart marketing is all about! Preserving and expanding a brand does not mean blowing it up by doing too much, too quickly. It means careful market identification and targeting your models at the fat center of the Bell-curve...

I'm happy!
What Pentax is doing with the K-5 is the same thing Porsche has been doing with the 911. When you are nearly perfect, do you make a whole new car, or do you tweak the design? If someone offered you a brand new Turbo Carrera, would you tell them to go away because it looks just like the same body Porsche has been making for decades? (You know you wouldn't!)

The only thing I felt the K-5 lagged in was AF, and now they have fixed it. The best got better.
09-11-2012, 10:21 AM   #36
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I wonder if people would complain the way they do now or even notice that it was an upgraded K5 if the name was changed instead of calling it a MkII?
09-11-2012, 10:26 AM   #37
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What do you think?
09-11-2012, 10:36 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
If you not happy , you should stay on the other threads , there enough of thatin Pentax Forum. And dont bother us with any FF stuff, most of us dont need it and wont need it as most of the non Pentax buyer also
+1

And actually don't ever want it, ever, at any price, even if it was coated with sugar!

09-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #39
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I suspect there is another camera to be displayed or announced at Photokina.

I think we'll soon see the long predicted 24mp APS camera with all the bells as the flagship K-mount camera.

Then'll we have a complete line-up of entry level, K30, mid-level K5 II and top level, K3 - all aps.
09-11-2012, 12:08 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I suspect there is another camera to be displayed or announced at Photokina.

I think we'll soon see the long predicted 24mp APS camera with all the bells as the flagship K-mount camera.

Then'll we have a complete line-up of entry level, K30, mid-level K5 II and top level, K3 - all aps.
That would be a logical goal. Actually, it would be the best position Pentax could be in. Throw the K-01, Q, and 645D in their respective positions and that's a solid lineup for pretty much anyone. If they can maintain that type of lineup and work on improving lenses, I think we would have a winner.


FYI, I've seen this a bit on the forum, but I don't think APS refers to what most people call "full frame." It seems like it only goes up to APS-H size.
Advanced Photo System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
09-11-2012, 12:26 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
If you not happy , you should stay on the other threads , there enough of thatin Pentax Forum. And dont bother us with any FF stuff, most of us dont need it and wont need it as most of the non Pentax buyer also
But honestly, most of you don't need K-5 II either, especially if you have K-5 already. Even k10d shooters probably don't need it.
09-11-2012, 12:40 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike V Quote
What Pentax is doing with the K-5 is the same thing Porsche has been doing with the 911. When you are nearly perfect, do you make a whole new car, or do you tweak the design? If someone offered you a brand new Turbo Carrera, would you tell them to go away because it looks just like the same body Porsche has been making for decades? (You know you wouldn't!)

The only thing I felt the K-5 lagged in was AF, and now they have fixed it. The best got better.
Considering the K-5II is still missing features that the K-30 has like better video recording and the Prime M processor, I think your comparison is way off.

What has happened here is Porsche is selling you a 911 with better suspension, while the Boxster has better suspension than the last model 911 and a more powerful engine than both 911s.

If the K-5II is really their new flagship, why does it have a worse image processor than their K-30?

QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
I wonder if people would complain the way they do now or even notice that it was an upgraded K5 if the name was changed instead of calling it a MkII?
They couldn't change the name, in fact I am surprised they are even trying to add a MkII title to it if the only thing changed is the AF system.

Compare this to the 5D and the 5D MkII. Canon's MkII came with:
Higher MP sensor
New Processor
Higher ISO
More focus points (61 vs 9)
Larger LCD (and resolution to match)
Better viewfinder coverage
Higher continuous drive
Larger exposure compensation
Larger AE bracketing

Obviously, some of those things the K-5 can't improve upon like viewfinder coverage. The fact is that while the K-5MkII is an upgrade, it is just barely an upgrade and everyone saying "cant get better than perfect" are fanboys. There is always room to improve even if it is on the lesser used features like 1 billion ISO or recording FPS.

Unless the new AF is absolutely incredible, this is is a pretty big letdown in my mind.

That said, i have been holding out for the new flagship (using a K10D) but again, unless the new AF is fantastic I will likely save the money and just get a used K5 while I wait for a real upgrade.
09-11-2012, 12:56 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by xfloggingkylex Quote
That said, i have been holding out for the new flagship (using a K10D) but again, unless the new AF is fantastic I will likely save the money and just get a used K5 while I wait for a real upgrade.
This is so sad, it almost becomes funny! So you have been torturing yourself, putting your foot down and missing out on both K20D and K-5 because you want to wait for a "real upgrade"?
09-11-2012, 01:14 PM   #44
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There has to be a K3 announced at Photokina. Nothing else makes sense. We saw rumors last week about 9 products released. Well, it looks like 8 have been announced.
09-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by xfloggingkylex Quote
Considering the K-5II is still missing features that the K-30 has like better video recording and the Prime M processor, I think your comparison is way off.
I don't know if if the video recording is better to be honest and doubt the prime M is as well.
Don't forget that the K5 is processing 4,398,046,511,104 different colours (14bit) while the K30 is processing 68,719,476,736 different colours (12bit), only a small magnitude of difference
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