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09-10-2012, 11:37 PM - 4 Likes   #1
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One angle about the K5II I never hear...

is that, regardless of all the bitching and moaning, an excellent camera just got more excellent. Not only that, but this means stuff like the D-BG4 will not be abandoned soon like what happened when the K20D/DBG2 was replaced by the K-7/D-BG4. For those of us, like me, who own a K-5 it is confirmation that the model is a DSLR to be reckoned with - even the "old" K-5, even now.

Furthermore, what would you guys rather have: the demise of Pentax because of dedicating sparse resources to development of brandnew models without the market share to have some long-term income guarantee.

I say this is one hell of a smart move. Maintaining the K-5's body and innards, as well as going after those things in its design that could be improved, allows a much better use of company funds while concentrating on the "other criticism" that is heard in today's market ("Pentax doesn't have a decent lens lineup").

In the optics you see the same market-driven thinking with the 18-270 from Tamron. That kind of range always has its limitations so why waste R&D on what basically is a consumer lens? At least now its available, on less argument for Joe Consumer to not go Pentax. The real development funds went to the 560mm which most definitely has a different target population.

As to Pentax spilling users "from the top" - that certainly is an issue but as long as the brand as a whole is repositioned so that it attracts more middle -ground photographers like photography-enthusiasts, weekend-professionals and serious travellers/bloggers as well as a dedicated crowd of Pentaxians, that should not be so disastrous.

All in all we've been complaining about Pentax's marketing but people, this is what smart marketing is all about! Preserving and expanding a brand does not mean blowing it up by doing too much, too quickly. It means careful market identification and targeting your models at the fat center of the Bell-curve...

I'm happy!

09-11-2012, 12:09 AM   #2
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Totally agree. Apart from the fact that the 560mm is not at the center of the Bell-curve. But all the birders out there (among which the K5 is a very popular Kamera) will be extremly happy about that lens and I can imaging that pentax will sell quite a few!
09-11-2012, 12:57 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
The real development funds went to the 560mm which most definitely has a different target population
I was always (from first conception I head about it) was under the impression it was miss guided. Pentax only sells lenses up to 300mm. I believe they should have targeted the 400mm F4 with matching 1.4X TC given the 260mm "gap" from the rest of the line up, and the significant price tag that comes with the 560mm.

Never-the-less I am still excited about the K-5 II(s) as I have been looking to upgrade the K-7 and was very impressed with the K-5 classic aside from AF and video. I am still tossing up between the K30 and K-5II(s) thought.
09-11-2012, 01:34 AM   #4
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I fully agree with you that it's a good thing that Pentax is sticking with the body design of the K-5. Next to the grip, there's also the batteries and the focusing screen that will remain compatible. I remember when I "upgraded" from my K20D to my K-7 that this required an additional investment to replace grip, batteries and focusing screen, amounting to a total of close to 400 EUR!

I'm still unsure whether I'll upgrade now though. I'm holding out to see in how much AF has improved (both the low light improvements and the Select-Area Expansion feature are interesting to me) and what the difference in resolution the removal of the low pass filter will result in.

My K-5 isn't in bad shape after slightly over 1.5 years of use, so that's not really a reason to get a new camera either. I might just skip a generation this time, but that will mean I'll be using the same DSLR for longer than have even before (except for my analog SLR which lasted 15 years). The K-7/K-5 body design has already been my longest used DSLR design, so that is certain to continue.

OTOH, now's the time my K-5 is still a good deal on the second hand market (still in great shape and a previous generation so recent model), which will not be the case in a year or two. In comparison: of all my previous DSLR the only one I couldn't get sold was the *istDS because that was "two" generations old when I upgraded. The *istDS2 was in between it and the K10D, and that made the *istDS look technologically older than it actually was. Comparable to the impact a K-5 II would have on the resale value of a K-5 once the K-5 II 's successor will be announced.

Anyway, I'm still undecided.

Wim

09-11-2012, 01:37 AM   #5
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I agree.

If one looks at the diversity of new products:

a. a new optical coating

b. a very long lens

c. A significant change in low light AF capability to f2.8 for K5II

d. Q-10 stuff

Then one has to come to the conclusion that Ricoh is serious about cameras.

I think it also means they are working on FF - not that i would buy one this year -=- but something is going on in the back room, i think.
09-11-2012, 02:22 AM - 1 Like   #6
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
OTOH, now's the time my K-5 is still a good deal on the second hand market (still in great shape and a previous generation so recent model), which will not be the case in a year or two. In comparison: of all my previous DSLR the only one I couldn't get sold was the *istDS because that was "two" generations old when I upgraded. The *istDS2 was in between it and the K10D, and that made the *istDS look technologically older than it actually was. Comparable to the impact a K-5 II would have on the resale value of a K-5 once the K-5 II 's successor will be announced.
It's quite obvious you do not have a teenage wannabee photographer in the house I never got a chance to put my K20D on Ebay as my 17 year old more or less snatched it away mumbling something like: "mumble mumble... loan your camera ... mumble mumble ... pocket money ... prrrrffffffgggg ... maybe pay next year ..." - I haven't seen my K20D since. Actually, now I come to think of it, where did I put my Sigma 50mm f2.8 macro?

By the way Wim, I finally sold the DA16-45 and replaced it with the Sigma 17-70mm. I used it with pleasure ever since I picked it up from you at the tennisclub a couple of years ago.

As to your sentiments on the K-5: ditto here. Maybe it's my kind of photography but I haven't run up against AF limitations that much I have to admit so after having used it for a year I'd say there's at least another 2 years of life in it before any update is due. I also believe the leaps between models will quickly turn into small hops due to advancing technology - K100D-S to K20D was a shockingly huge difference where K20D to K-5 was impressive but much less huge. In that, the K5-II models seem to follow suit.
09-11-2012, 03:02 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
I fully agree with you that it's a good thing that Pentax is sticking with the body design of the K-5. Next to the grip, there's also the batteries and the focusing screen that will remain compatible. I remember when I "upgraded" from my K20D to my K-7 that this required an additional investment to replace grip, batteries and focusing screen, amounting to a total of close to 400 EUR!

I'm still unsure whether I'll upgrade now though. I'm holding out to see in how much AF has improved (both the low light improvements and the Select-Area Expansion feature are interesting to me) and what the difference in resolution the removal of the low pass filter will result in.
Sure you save €400 but will you spend €1200 for just better AF?
So all in all isn't it a mood point?
09-11-2012, 03:05 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
is that, regardless of all the bitching and moaning, an excellent camera just got more excellent
Agreed!!

09-11-2012, 03:12 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Sure you save €400 but will you spend €1200 for just better AF?
So all in all isn't it a mood point?
I'm in a good mood yes. But whether it's a moot () point is not relevant. My remark was related to Pentax's decision to stick with the K-7/K-5 body. This is only indirectly related to the improvements the K-5II will or will not have.

BTW, I won't be spending EUR 1200 on the K-5IIs should I decide to upgrade. I would be selling my K-5, so its resale value needs to be subtracted from those EUR 1200.

As I wrote, it's in real life photography that the K-5II(s) will have to show its added value. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing yet to conclude that the K-5II will *not* be worth the upgrade.

Wim
09-11-2012, 03:39 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Think of the marketing this way... the K-5 is so awesome, that after 2 years, only this amount of stuff is needed to make it even more awesome.. :P
09-11-2012, 03:48 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
is that, regardless of all the bitching and moaning, an excellent camera just got more excellent. Not only that, but this means stuff like the D-BG4 will not be abandoned soon like what happened when the K20D/DBG2 was replaced by the K-7/D-BG4. For those of us, like me, who own a K-5 it is confirmation that the model is a DSLR to be reckoned with - even the "old" K-5, even now.

Furthermore, what would you guys rather have: the demise of Pentax because of dedicating sparse resources to development of brandnew models without the market share to have some long-term income guarantee.

I say this is one hell of a smart move. Maintaining the K-5's body and innards, as well as going after those things in its design that could be improved, allows a much better use of company funds while concentrating on the "other criticism" that is heard in today's market ("Pentax doesn't have a decent lens lineup").

In the optics you see the same market-driven thinking with the 18-270 from Tamron. That kind of range always has its limitations so why waste R&D on what basically is a consumer lens? At least now its available, on less argument for Joe Consumer to not go Pentax. The real development funds went to the 560mm which most definitely has a different target population.

As to Pentax spilling users "from the top" - that certainly is an issue but as long as the brand as a whole is repositioned so that it attracts more middle -ground photographers like photography-enthusiasts, weekend-professionals and serious travellers/bloggers as well as a dedicated crowd of Pentaxians, that should not be so disastrous.

All in all we've been complaining about Pentax's marketing but people, this is what smart marketing is all about! Preserving and expanding a brand does not mean blowing it up by doing too much, too quickly. It means careful market identification and targeting your models at the fat center of the Bell-curve...

I'm happy!
This is more like 5 angles.
09-11-2012, 04:19 AM   #12
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Yes, I agree Mike allthough, like Wim stated, I wait for the tests and side-by-side comparisions to make a final descision. But, as the K5 classic (love that phrase) was very and attracted a lot of new comstumers, the MkII will also be very tempting for newcomers. More people=more funds=more room for the upcoming FF (wich I don`t need at this time)
09-11-2012, 04:28 AM   #13
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I for one am looking forward to being able to buy a camera with K5 dynamic range and much better AF than my K7!!
09-11-2012, 04:53 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by newmikey Quote
is that, regardless of all the bitching and moaning, an excellent camera just got more excellent. Not only that, but this means stuff like the D-BG4 will not be abandoned soon like what happened when the K20D/DBG2 was replaced by the K-7/D-BG4. For those of us, like me, who own a K-5 it is confirmation that the model is a DSLR to be reckoned with - even the "old" K-5, even now.

Furthermore, what would you guys rather have: the demise of Pentax because of dedicating sparse resources to development of brandnew models without the market share to have some long-term income guarantee.

I say this is one hell of a smart move. Maintaining the K-5's body and innards, as well as going after those things in its design that could be improved, allows a much better use of company funds while concentrating on the "other criticism" that is heard in today's market ("Pentax doesn't have a decent lens lineup").

In the optics you see the same market-driven thinking with the 18-270 from Tamron. That kind of range always has its limitations so why waste R&D on what basically is a consumer lens? At least now its available, on less argument for Joe Consumer to not go Pentax. The real development funds went to the 560mm which most definitely has a different target population.

As to Pentax spilling users "from the top" - that certainly is an issue but as long as the brand as a whole is repositioned so that it attracts more middle -ground photographers like photography-enthusiasts, weekend-professionals and serious travellers/bloggers as well as a dedicated crowd of Pentaxians, that should not be so disastrous.

All in all we've been complaining about Pentax's marketing but people, this is what smart marketing is all about! Preserving and expanding a brand does not mean blowing it up by doing too much, too quickly. It means careful market identification and targeting your models at the fat center of the Bell-curve...

I'm happy!
I am a long time Pentaxian and I approve this message!
09-11-2012, 05:37 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
I for one am looking forward to being able to buy a camera with K5 dynamic range and much better AF than my K7!!
That makes at least two of us !
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