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09-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #1
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How to Fight with Moire with IIs ? Raw Ideas.

Fact: No AA filter is perfect for fighting with the moire even it's native filter on the sensor.
Fact:Huge percentage of pictures doesn't have a moire problem so why sacrifice huge amount of sharpness (Like at least %-15-20) for moire all the time?
Fact: Moire is problem mostly with video's and technically almost impossible to remove moire from videos with a software.

But:
-Fighting moire is lot easier than getting enough sharpness,
-If you take textile pictures continuously (e.g. fashion) or similar pattern pictures you don't want a get a IIs,
-For a normal hobby photographer most likely moire won't be visible at more than %99 of the pictures, if a particular scene is important to you and it has a moire, there are things to do, like

Using a moire filter, Anti-Moire and anti-aliasing filters for digital cameras
Using an el cheapo soft lens,
Using a cheap (2 bucks from feebay) soft filter
Using women nylon stockings in front of the lens (homemade soft filter option)
Nikon Capture NX (I am told)
PS is working hard to solve moire problem.

This is my uneducated AA'les sensor ideas for moire, waiting to be corrected and/or improved.

P:S: I don't own a K-5 just considering to get an IIs,


Last edited by cbaytan; 09-21-2012 at 04:25 PM. Reason: type
09-21-2012, 04:16 PM   #2
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I've never haad occasion to fight moire but these might work:

Purposefully focus incorrectly. Do it manually, set your AF adjust incorrectly, or focus-and-recompose on something in front or behind your subject.

If you have lots of light, use a small aperture to cause diffraction.
09-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #3
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capture one has a moire removal brush tool...
09-21-2012, 04:27 PM   #4
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Lightroom 4 has a moire removal brush...
DxO Optics Pro 7 has a moire removal tick-box...

The D800e suddenly got a lot of RAW convertors more interested in dealing with moire removal.

09-22-2012, 09:33 AM   #5
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The concern of morie is way over blown. You have to have specific subjects that are capable of producing morie and you have to have a lens that is sharp enough. At wider apertures the softness of the lens will reduce or eliminate morie, and at smaller apertures diffraction will reduce or eliminate morie. If you shoot a lot of B&W then you really don't care much at all about color morie.

Here is a review where they tried to generate morie with a D800E.
09-22-2012, 09:48 AM   #6
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The only people that need to worry about it are people shooting stuff they know is going to cause it AND they're doing a whole shoot with dozens of photos that way, i.e. they are going to have a ton of post-processing. But for anyone else, even if you do have to clean up a portion of a picture once in a while, so what? If using two bodies, one with AA and one without might be a good idea, but I will certainly be strongly considering the non-AA options next time I'm in the market for a body, which probably won't be for a year or so. I hope they keep making 'em, or maybe they will come up with a replacement for the Bayer pattern so it won't happen to begin with. It would be nice to see that Foveon sensor in something other than a totally useless Sigma body -- I don't understand what they are doing with that, it's a waste.
09-24-2012, 07:00 AM   #7
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Quick question then: Will using a K-5 IIs in a wedding scene be utterly difficult? Given the pattern of the cloth in those long gowns... veils, etc.
09-24-2012, 07:55 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Quick question then: Will using a K-5 IIs in a wedding scene be utterly difficult? Given the pattern of the cloth in those long gowns... veils, etc.
i.e macro and landscape photography needs mostly razor ike sharp photos, but wedding and most portrait photos are on the opposite side

IIs is not definitely for weddings that require soft dream like pictures, nobody wants to see zits, freckles skin blemishes, from a sharp photo in the weddings, bride would get mad. A soft filter or a nylon stocking can be used tho. so moire won't be a problem.

09-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
A soft filter or a nylon stocking can be used tho. so moire won't be a problem.
As I don't shoot fashion a lot, that's what I'm asking. Of course it may make extra work for portaitists, but I don't believe they're exactly at the "opposite side" because if that's so, then why are pro shooters using all those sharp Canon L lenses on their full-frames to... say, get "every zit and blemish"? Or the DA* 50-135 for Pentaxians.

In the article "The Naked Sensor", found here - The Naked Sensor

illustrated is a sample of moire correction.

a lot of fashion photographers will probably still want to capture more detail, but if one is going to correct moire like almost every other shot, how will the IIs benefit them?
09-27-2012, 09:22 AM   #10
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I was watching a news video a couple of days ago, obviously shot with a digital video camera and no AA filter, and the moire showing up in the reporters striped shirt made me think I was having acid flashbacks. It went away as the camera zoomed in but from further back, it was very distracting and would be totally unacceptable in any photograph. It was annoying watching the video. SInce it was video and the camera moving, the shirt went from stripes to various different patterns and appeared to shimmer. I expected him to suddenly get beamed up the the Enterprise. I don't know a lot about this issue but since it came and went as the camera angle changed and reporter moved, it's possible to never see it or you might see it in every shot, depending on how you shoot. The camera manufacturers must consider it an issue because dealing with it by adding a filter and software to correct the effects of the filtering is an added expense I'm sure they wouldn't do if it wasn't necessary.
09-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #11
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isn't this a sequel from the days when we had 3, 6Mp sensors and such? those times, it was quite easy to fulfill the required conditions: have a lens that "outresolves" the sensor, have some pattern in the shot which happens to "resonate" with the sensor pattern, and there you go, instant trouble. These days, with 16mp and such, it might be far enough that this should no longer be a major concern (or is it? sqrt(16)/sqrt(6) = 1.63, that being linear density ratio between a same size and aspect ratio sensor with 16 and respectively 6mp). interestingly, one might wonder, is this different for the nikon (being a lot more pixels), well, at a quick glance: sqrt(36)/1.5/sqrt(6) = 1.63, it's exactly the same (is the 36mp sensor simply a bigger version of the sensor in the k-5/d7000 and such?).

not sure how likely for a lens to outresolve these sensors, i have some sharp lenses, but i don't think any can achieve this with the k-5. or is it even necessary to outresolve the sensor, or just to outresolve the bayer pattern, the "derived" resolution of the demoisaced sensor (if that makes any sense)?
09-27-2012, 01:17 PM   #12
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i was thinking the exact same thing, the d800e, a 36mp full frame, has the same pixel density as a 16mp aps-c
then i was thinking about the leica m9, an 18mp ff, without aa, and a collection of razor sharp lenses... even with the monochrom which lacks even the bayer you dont get as much moire as someone would think... i havent read that there is a moire problem... sometimes its there but its not a problem...
which makes me believe that getting moire with the k-5IIs will be very rare....
also, i was reading this...
Nikon D800-D800E First Comparison
check the last line of the article...
"Oh yes, moire! Sorry, none yet. Still searching."
09-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
I was watching a news video a couple of days ago, obviously shot with a digital video camera and no AA filter, and the moire showing up in the reporters striped shirt made me think I was having acid flashbacks. It went away as the camera zoomed in but from further back, it was very distracting and would be totally unacceptable in any photograph. It was annoying watching the video. SInce it was video and the camera moving, the shirt went from stripes to various different patterns and appeared to shimmer. I expected him to suddenly get beamed up the the Enterprise. I don't know a lot about this issue but since it came and went as the camera angle changed and reporter moved, it's possible to never see it or you might see it in every shot, depending on how you shoot. The camera manufacturers must consider it an issue because dealing with it by adding a filter and software to correct the effects of the filtering is an added expense I'm sure they wouldn't do if it wasn't necessary.
Broadcast TV has much lower resolution than still photos from our cameras; 1080p HD is only 2.1 megapixels. The 16mp stills from the K5iis will show much less moire than 2.1 mp video.
09-27-2012, 04:17 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Lightroom 4 has a moire removal brush...
DxO Optics Pro 7 has a moire removal tick-box...
They are not perfect and some moire is HARD to remove. And you will notice that you removed it too for the difficult cases. I couldn't get out all of mine in one of my shots without it looking like a sore thumb.

It is not just clothing. Rails with vertical stanchions that get closer and closer together due to a perspective vanishing point in your shot, for example.
09-28-2012, 02:50 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
sacrifice huge amount of sharpness (Like at least %-15-20)
Any evidence for that "15-20%"? I think that's quite exaggerated.
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