K-5 and PTTL bounce flash--any success stories?

Quicksand · 09-27-2012, 04:52 PM

Count me in the crowd that thinks that K-5 bounce P-TTL flash is very broken.

Why?

Off-camera wireless P-TTL works fine, even when bounced. I have experimented, setting up the camera exactly the same way for two shots, with the only difference between the two shots being as follows:

In shot 1, flash is mounted to the camera hotshoe and bounced

In shot 2, flash is taken off-camera but bounced at the same approximate angle, using P-TTL optical wireless mode (controlled by the on-camera flash)

Repeatably, shot 1 is badly overexposed and blown out. Shot 2 is fine. The two shots (on Av) have the same ISO/aperture/shutter, but I can hear (by the "pop" sound) that the flash in shot 1 is firing at a much higher power.

This is using a K-5 on latest firmware (1.13, right?) and an AF360-FGZ flash. I have also tried different lenses (Sigma and Pentax), different flashes (a Metz in addition to my Pentax), and different bodies (K-x works fine bounced with the same flash).

It's the camera, it's defective, and it's annoying.

pentrax · 09-27-2012, 09:22 PM

Yes, something is definitely broken, and it really cheapens the whole Pentax experience to know something so basic (and likely easily fixed with firmware) is ignored by Pentax.

@calsan: i often shoot M when photographing people indoors. i adjust the exposure to -2 or -3EV for a darker, non-distracting background, and let the the camera meter the flash to properly expose the foreground subject. or so it works on other cameras...

@johnc: i think you're definitely on to something with the flash having a higher minimum power in bounce mode. quickly experimenting this morning, it seemed that bringing down the overall reach of the flash with smaller aperture and lower ISO (but lengthing exposure to keep my desired -3EV) worked. and then at that point varying the aperture up/down one stop seemed to produce very similar pictures (i.e., the flash intensity must have been properly varied by the K-5).

@asp1880: excellent suggestion.

@enoeske and stanic: nice shots. i wonder if they worked fine because you hit the flash's bounce range sweet spot, and maybe the ceilings were rather high in your photos. my experiments so far have been only in my house, bright white 8' or 9' ceilings.

Thanks everyone for their replies!! i'll be doing more experiments when i get some free time...

Ponosby Britt · 09-27-2012, 10:44 PM

When I shoot events and the flash is mounted on camera, the camera is on manual exposure and the 540 is on P-TTL. Since I found out about it, I always use "The Black Foamy Thing" ( aka a piece of black foam from Michael's held on by a hair band). I'll bounce up, behind or to the side depending on available surfaces but always flagging the flash with the Black Foamy Thing. Dial in EV compensation on the flash as needed based on your histogram. Inside, light doesn't change much so get a base exposure and vary as needed. Every bounce is a different deal so the histogram will keep you on track.

rawr · 09-28-2012, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Ponosby Britt

I always use "The Black Foamy Thing" ( aka a piece of black foam from Michael's held on by a hair band)

Could you please post a pic of that mounted on your flash?
I'm having trouble visualising how it would look and work.

johnc · 09-28-2012, 06:16 AM

All interesting stuff. From memory, in wireless bounce works fine for me. So it seems that: the problem is limited to on camera bounce. And can be worked around by manual flash zoom control, or dropping the diffuser (effectively setting a wide flash zoom manually)? Proving that is this weekend's job.

Ponosby Britt · 09-28-2012, 08:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

Could you please post a pic of that mounted on your flash?
I'm having trouble visualising how it would look and work.

Here's a link to the guy who came up with the idea. A great place to learn about flash the black foamie thing ..

rawr · 09-28-2012, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Ponosby Britt

Here's a link to the guy who came up with the idea. A great place to learn about flash the black foamie thing ..

Excellent. Now I get it. Simple and effective.
Thanks for the link.

DjayT7 · 10-17-2012, 04:00 PM

K5 + Metz 58 AF-2 ... Got some problems with P-TTL + bounce in some conditions. Especially when the ceiling was low or too many white walls.
Removing the Highlight correction kinda solved my problem.
When for some reason it keeps failing, I switch to Auto on the flash.

mysterick · 10-17-2012, 05:32 PM

I have had no problems since the last couple(?) updates. I use it bounce/wireless.

09-27-2012, 04:52 PM	#16
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Count me in the crowd that thinks that K-5 bounce P-TTL flash is very broken. Why? Off-camera wireless P-TTL works fine, even when bounced. I have experimented, setting up the camera exactly the same way for two shots, with the only difference between the two shots being as follows: In shot 1, flash is mounted to the camera hotshoe and bounced In shot 2, flash is taken off-camera but bounced at the same approximate angle, using P-TTL optical wireless mode (controlled by the on-camera flash) Repeatably, shot 1 is badly overexposed and blown out. Shot 2 is fine. The two shots (on Av) have the same ISO/aperture/shutter, but I can hear (by the "pop" sound) that the flash in shot 1 is firing at a much higher power. This is using a K-5 on latest firmware (1.13, right?) and an AF360-FGZ flash. I have also tried different lenses (Sigma and Pentax), different flashes (a Metz in addition to my Pentax), and different bodies (K-x works fine bounced with the same flash). It's the camera, it's defective, and it's annoying.

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09-27-2012, 09:22 PM	#17
pentrax New Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7 Original Poster	Yes, something is definitely broken, and it really cheapens the whole Pentax experience to know something so basic (and likely easily fixed with firmware) is ignored by Pentax. @calsan: i often shoot M when photographing people indoors. i adjust the exposure to -2 or -3EV for a darker, non-distracting background, and let the the camera meter the flash to properly expose the foreground subject. or so it works on other cameras... @johnc: i think you're definitely on to something with the flash having a higher minimum power in bounce mode. quickly experimenting this morning, it seemed that bringing down the overall reach of the flash with smaller aperture and lower ISO (but lengthing exposure to keep my desired -3EV) worked. and then at that point varying the aperture up/down one stop seemed to produce very similar pictures (i.e., the flash intensity must have been properly varied by the K-5). @asp1880: excellent suggestion. @enoeske and stanic: nice shots. i wonder if they worked fine because you hit the flash's bounce range sweet spot, and maybe the ceilings were rather high in your photos. my experiments so far have been only in my house, bright white 8' or 9' ceilings. Thanks everyone for their replies!! i'll be doing more experiments when i get some free time...

09-27-2012, 10:44 PM	#18
Ponosby Britt Closed Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 227	When I shoot events and the flash is mounted on camera, the camera is on manual exposure and the 540 is on P-TTL. Since I found out about it, I always use "The Black Foamy Thing" ( aka a piece of black foam from Michael's held on by a hair band). I'll bounce up, behind or to the side depending on available surfaces but always flagging the flash with the Black Foamy Thing. Dial in EV compensation on the flash as needed based on your histogram. Inside, light doesn't change much so get a base exposure and vary as needed. Every bounce is a different deal so the histogram will keep you on track.

09-28-2012, 02:12 AM	#19
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Ponosby Britt I always use "The Black Foamy Thing" ( aka a piece of black foam from Michael's held on by a hair band) Could you please post a pic of that mounted on your flash? I'm having trouble visualising how it would look and work.

09-28-2012, 06:16 AM	#20
johnc Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: United Kingdom Photos: Albums Posts: 735	All interesting stuff. From memory, in wireless bounce works fine for me. So it seems that: the problem is limited to on camera bounce. And can be worked around by manual flash zoom control, or dropping the diffuser (effectively setting a wide flash zoom manually)? Proving that is this weekend's job.

09-28-2012, 08:16 PM - 1 Like	#21
Ponosby Britt Closed Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 227	Originally posted by rawr Could you please post a pic of that mounted on your flash? I'm having trouble visualising how it would look and work. Here's a link to the guy who came up with the idea. A great place to learn about flash the black foamie thing ..

09-28-2012, 09:50 PM	#22
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Ponosby Britt Here's a link to the guy who came up with the idea. A great place to learn about flash the black foamie thing .. Excellent. Now I get it. Simple and effective. Thanks for the link.

10-17-2012, 04:00 PM	#23
DjayT7 New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brussels Posts: 1	K5 + Metz 58 AF-2 ... Got some problems with P-TTL + bounce in some conditions. Especially when the ceiling was low or too many white walls. Removing the Highlight correction kinda solved my problem. When for some reason it keeps failing, I switch to Auto on the flash.

10-17-2012, 05:32 PM	#24
mysterick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 44266 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 567	I have had no problems since the last couple(?) updates. I use it bounce/wireless.