K-5: P-TTL External FLASH overexposure

gflauti · 10-12-2012, 08:03 AM

Hi,
I have had in the past a Pentax k-x with Metz 50 AF1. They was working well together (just a little underexposure sometime).

Using the same lens and the same Flash, my k-5 give unconsistent results, expecially with direct light and flash mounted on the hot shoe (usually there is a big overexposure).

I know, I have to fix ISO, use M or A mode and reduce exposure of about 1 stop...

but the questions are:
why my k-x was working better than my k-5?
Why Pentax does not release a firmware to fix this problem?

Last edited by gflauti; 10-27-2012 at 08:13 AM.

**jatrax** · 10-12-2012, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by gflauti

Why Pentax does not release a firmware to fix this problem?

I seem to remember issues with this some time ago, over a year I think, and the consensus was that it was fixed or greatly improved with a firmware update. Check to see if you have the latest firmware.

Also, if it is consistently over exposing use the flash compensation to dial it down a bit. Another thought: which lens? If the lens is manual or not communicating properly with the camera then the flash may have the wrong focal length.

westmill · 10-12-2012, 08:40 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by gflauti

Hi,
I have had in the past a Pentax k-x with Metz 50 AF1. They was working well together (just a little underexposure sometime).

Using the same lens and the same Flash, my k-5 give unconsistent results, expecially with direct light and flash mounted on the hot shoe (usually there is a big overexposure).

I know, I have to fix ISO, use M or A mode and reduce exposition of about 1 stop...

but the questions are:
why my k-x was working better than my k-5?
Why Pentax does not release a firmware to fix this problem?

Yup the K5 is a bit hopeless when it comes to flash im afraid. It does work well if you set the preflash working though. ( red eye reduction ). This is obviously not always ideal but it works and it works reliably and consitantly.

rawr · 10-12-2012, 09:29 AM

To quote from L33tGreg in this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-camera-field-accessories/197906-me...ml#post2091876

Originally posted by L33tGreg

Metz, Sigma, etc never licensed PTTL and have reverse engineered it. Occasionally, when a new model comes out, they have to tweak it. For instance, Metz released firmware updates for the K-r and K-5 for Metz 58. My Metz 54 with SCA-3702m2 supports PTTL on the K20d but not the K-7 and K-5. Those require the SCA-3702m3. Unless your flash is from Pentax, there may be an incompatibility with new bodies. That's why I recommend Metz since they have software upgrades you can do from your PC

tl;dr - it's not necessarily a problem with the K-5, but the [third-party] flash. A flash that works on the K-x may need to have its firmware updated to work with the K-5. You can't expect Pentax to issue firmware updates for Metz flashes.

Metz firmware downloads:
Firmware Download Flash Units: Metz

**felixkh** · 10-12-2012, 11:24 PM

Metz updates firmware regularly. Check the latest.

adwb · 10-13-2012, 02:57 AM

I think it is your flash, i have a cl45 digital and 48 from metz and both work fine on k10d,kr and k5. I get the odd rubbish overexposure in but only the odd one.
mode can be p or av or manual makes no difference, I don't use other modes so can't comment further

gflauti · 10-14-2012, 08:00 AM

Thanks to everyone for answers.
Let me summarize my situation:
- I have already updated firmware of both k-5 and Metz to the latest version.
- Overexposure happens only with direct light and flash mounted on hot shoe.
- Overexposure happens with both Tamron 17-50 and Pentax 18-55 lens.
- Internal flash works well

- Metz was working well with my k-x + Tamron 17-50 or Pentax 18-55

- I'm able to obtain good results reducing flash exposure of about 1 stop (but changing the focal length I have to adjust again the flash exposure, results are "unpredictable for me")
- I work with fixed ISO value, usuali in M or Av mode.
- I follow this rule as indicated in Metz user Manual: "The subject ought to be in the area of approximately 40% to 70% of the value
displayed. This will give the automatic exposure control sufficient scope for compensation. To avoid overexposure, the minimum distance should be no less than
10% of the indicated value! Adjustment to the photographic situation at hand can be achieved by, for example, changing the aperture of the setting on the lens"

By the way, the system is working properly in wireless and bounced mode. I have to accept to start with a best guessing value of -1 in the flash exposure compensation (with direct light only).

activeflush · 10-15-2012, 02:49 AM

There was a lot of talk about this issue on the forums when the camera was first released. There was never a true fix for this through the firmware upgrades, some say it worked and some didnt

I have the the AF540 with the K5 and Tamron 17-50mm and have the same problems, not only with that 17-50 but with the 35mm prime too - the overexposure is never consistent, so cant preset the flash ev to an optimal setting. Happens on bounce as well.

Dont think its the flash, from all that I've read it seems like the metering on the body itself. If someone does have a fool proof method do tell.

**newmikey** · 10-15-2012, 03:43 AM

One of the theories was that somehow the distances got mixed up somewhere in the firmware of the K-5. One of the fixes was to set highlight protection to "On" which seemed to cause the firmware to relate to another distance table that did to a correct job. I've now set one of the User modes to that and named it "Flash" and exposures are spot-on ever since. I updated both camera and Metz firmware since and the last time I shot with the Matz 58 AF-1 I forgot to set the camera to that setting and the shots still came out OK which led me to believe that the issue was more or less solved.

However, give it a try, you never know!

westmill · 10-15-2012, 07:52 AM

My cure works very well ! If I need flash I use my Nikon lol. The only way I would ever trust the K5 with flash when doing some thing important would be to buy the big metz and use the built in auto eye of the flash unit. With luck Im hoping for a bloody good firmware update for the K5. It is about time they got there fingers out !

**newmikey** · 10-15-2012, 07:56 AM - **1 Like**

Trust a guy from Stoke on Trent to hope for a "bloody good firmware update" LOL

London would be : "A bloody decent firmware update"
New York : "A friggin good firmware update"
Amsterdam: "A cheap firmware update"

westmill · 10-16-2012, 09:15 AM

Oh my god ! I may actualy have a fix lol.... Metz 50 with K5........ Set the Metz to P TTL HSS..... Set camera to AV mode.
The only thing I have yet to try is in artificial lighting. So far.... I have not been able to fool it. Inside and out... bounce or direct. From 80 ISO through to 6400 ISO and from F2.8 to F22
ALL PERFECT EXPOSURES ! ( NOTE>>> Hilight correction turned OFF ! )

rawr · 10-16-2012, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by westmill

ALL PERFECT EXPOSURES !

Pix, or it didn't happen

westmill · 10-16-2012, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Pix, or it didn't happen

LOL

Too much trouble to do it lol. Im not kidding though. Just try it yourself. Im strugling to fool it. I set 200 ISO and took a pic of a tripod thats sat on the studio floor. I shot at F2.8 and F16 etc.. then I turned it right up to 6400 ISO same thing again. I have tried the same sort of thing outside in the sun of a green lounge chair outside the studio. From ISO 100- 6400 and F2.8 to f16 and all perfect lol

Not one single pic anywhere all burnt out ! Ive tried direct... indirect... bounce... all perfect.

123jippo · 10-17-2012, 04:09 AM

My K5 and Metz 58-AF2 also not exposure good in PTTL mode, too much variation in exposure even nothing really do change...sad but true. Must try red eye reduction on as Westmill did advice, i have newer even try that yet...

10-12-2012, 08:03 AM	#1
gflauti Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Naples (IT) Photos: Albums Posts: 44	K-5: P-TTL External FLASH overexposure Hi, I have had in the past a Pentax k-x with Metz 50 AF1. They was working well together (just a little underexposure sometime). Using the same lens and the same Flash, my k-5 give unconsistent results, expecially with direct light and flash mounted on the hot shoe (usually there is a big overexposure). I know, I have to fix ISO, use M or A mode and reduce exposure of about 1 stop... but the questions are: why my k-x was working better than my k-5? Why Pentax does not release a firmware to fix this problem? Last edited by gflauti; 10-27-2012 at 08:13 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Aokatec AK-TTL Radio Wireless TTL Flash Trigger for Nikon Canon Pentax Sony	callmeraymon	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	28	08-25-2012 01:24 PM
How do I use external TTL flash on the *ist D?	ducdao	Pentax DSLR Discussion	11	09-01-2011 04:33 PM
Flash overexposure with new K5	dh87	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	36	08-05-2011 04:12 PM
P-TTL overexposure, no more negative flash compensation	Eruditass	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	11	10-09-2010 05:35 PM

10-12-2012, 08:34 AM	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by gflauti Why Pentax does not release a firmware to fix this problem? I seem to remember issues with this some time ago, over a year I think, and the consensus was that it was fixed or greatly improved with a firmware update. Check to see if you have the latest firmware. Also, if it is consistently over exposing use the flash compensation to dial it down a bit. Another thought: which lens? If the lens is manual or not communicating properly with the camera then the flash may have the wrong focal length.

10-12-2012, 08:40 AM - 2 Likes	#3
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Originally posted by gflauti Hi, I have had in the past a Pentax k-x with Metz 50 AF1. They was working well together (just a little underexposure sometime). Using the same lens and the same Flash, my k-5 give unconsistent results, expecially with direct light and flash mounted on the hot shoe (usually there is a big overexposure). I know, I have to fix ISO, use M or A mode and reduce exposition of about 1 stop... but the questions are: why my k-x was working better than my k-5? Why Pentax does not release a firmware to fix this problem? Yup the K5 is a bit hopeless when it comes to flash im afraid. It does work well if you set the preflash working though. ( red eye reduction ). This is obviously not always ideal but it works and it works reliably and consitantly.

10-12-2012, 09:29 AM	#4
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	To quote from L33tGreg in this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-camera-field-accessories/197906-me...ml#post2091876 Originally posted by L33tGreg Metz, Sigma, etc never licensed PTTL and have reverse engineered it. Occasionally, when a new model comes out, they have to tweak it. For instance, Metz released firmware updates for the K-r and K-5 for Metz 58. My Metz 54 with SCA-3702m2 supports PTTL on the K20d but not the K-7 and K-5. Those require the SCA-3702m3. Unless your flash is from Pentax, there may be an incompatibility with new bodies. That's why I recommend Metz since they have software upgrades you can do from your PC tl;dr - it's not necessarily a problem with the K-5, but the [third-party] flash. A flash that works on the K-x may need to have its firmware updated to work with the K-5. You can't expect Pentax to issue firmware updates for Metz flashes. Metz firmware downloads: Firmware Download Flash Units: Metz

10-12-2012, 11:24 PM	#5
felixkh Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,201	Metz updates firmware regularly. Check the latest.

10-13-2012, 02:57 AM	#6
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	I think it is your flash, i have a cl45 digital and 48 from metz and both work fine on k10d,kr and k5. I get the odd rubbish overexposure in but only the odd one. mode can be p or av or manual makes no difference, I don't use other modes so can't comment further

10-14-2012, 08:00 AM	#7
gflauti Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Naples (IT) Photos: Albums Posts: 44 Original Poster	Thanks to everyone for answers. Let me summarize my situation: - I have already updated firmware of both k-5 and Metz to the latest version. - Overexposure happens only with direct light and flash mounted on hot shoe. - Overexposure happens with both Tamron 17-50 and Pentax 18-55 lens. - Internal flash works well - Metz was working well with my k-x + Tamron 17-50 or Pentax 18-55 - I'm able to obtain good results reducing flash exposure of about 1 stop (but changing the focal length I have to adjust again the flash exposure, results are "unpredictable for me") - I work with fixed ISO value, usuali in M or Av mode. - I follow this rule as indicated in Metz user Manual: "The subject ought to be in the area of approximately 40% to 70% of the value displayed. This will give the automatic exposure control sufficient scope for compensation. To avoid overexposure, the minimum distance should be no less than 10% of the indicated value! Adjustment to the photographic situation at hand can be achieved by, for example, changing the aperture of the setting on the lens" By the way, the system is working properly in wireless and bounced mode. I have to accept to start with a best guessing value of -1 in the flash exposure compensation (with direct light only).

10-15-2012, 02:49 AM	#8
activeflush New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 22	There was a lot of talk about this issue on the forums when the camera was first released. There was never a true fix for this through the firmware upgrades, some say it worked and some didnt I have the the AF540 with the K5 and Tamron 17-50mm and have the same problems, not only with that 17-50 but with the 35mm prime too - the overexposure is never consistent, so cant preset the flash ev to an optimal setting. Happens on bounce as well. Dont think its the flash, from all that I've read it seems like the metering on the body itself. If someone does have a fool proof method do tell.

10-15-2012, 03:43 AM	#9
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,289	One of the theories was that somehow the distances got mixed up somewhere in the firmware of the K-5. One of the fixes was to set highlight protection to "On" which seemed to cause the firmware to relate to another distance table that did to a correct job. I've now set one of the User modes to that and named it "Flash" and exposures are spot-on ever since. I updated both camera and Metz firmware since and the last time I shot with the Matz 58 AF-1 I forgot to set the camera to that setting and the shots still came out OK which led me to believe that the issue was more or less solved. However, give it a try, you never know!

10-15-2012, 07:52 AM	#10
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	My cure works very well ! If I need flash I use my Nikon lol. The only way I would ever trust the K5 with flash when doing some thing important would be to buy the big metz and use the built in auto eye of the flash unit. With luck Im hoping for a bloody good firmware update for the K5. It is about time they got there fingers out !

10-15-2012, 07:56 AM - 1 Like	#11
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,289	Trust a guy from Stoke on Trent to hope for a "bloody good firmware update" LOL London would be : "A bloody decent firmware update" New York : "A friggin good firmware update" Amsterdam: "A cheap firmware update"

10-16-2012, 09:15 AM	#12
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Oh my god ! I may actualy have a fix lol.... Metz 50 with K5........ Set the Metz to P TTL HSS..... Set camera to AV mode. The only thing I have yet to try is in artificial lighting. So far.... I have not been able to fool it. Inside and out... bounce or direct. From 80 ISO through to 6400 ISO and from F2.8 to F22 ALL PERFECT EXPOSURES ! ( NOTE>>> Hilight correction turned OFF ! )

10-16-2012, 09:17 AM	#13
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by westmill ALL PERFECT EXPOSURES ! Pix, or it didn't happen

10-16-2012, 10:16 AM	#14
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Originally posted by rawr Pix, or it didn't happen LOL Too much trouble to do it lol. Im not kidding though. Just try it yourself. Im strugling to fool it. I set 200 ISO and took a pic of a tripod thats sat on the studio floor. I shot at F2.8 and F16 etc.. then I turned it right up to 6400 ISO same thing again. I have tried the same sort of thing outside in the sun of a green lounge chair outside the studio. From ISO 100- 6400 and F2.8 to f16 and all perfect lol Not one single pic anywhere all burnt out ! Ive tried direct... indirect... bounce... all perfect.

10-17-2012, 04:09 AM	#15
123jippo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 165	My K5 and Metz 58-AF2 also not exposure good in PTTL mode, too much variation in exposure even nothing really do change...sad but true. Must try red eye reduction on as Westmill did advice, i have newer even try that yet...