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11-06-2012, 04:28 AM   #16
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i think people here overlook one huge advantage of FF: Wide angle. Yes, there are wide angle lenses for APS-C cameras, but they are usually new. You can't just pick up an old wide angle lens. Also a 50mm lens will stay a 50mm lens. If you want to shoot with a fast 50mm on an APS-C camera, well, there is the 31mm Limited that equals 50mm lenses. But a 50mm 1.8 for Canon costs like 100 dollar, the Limited is at least 10x as much (yes, it is of much higher build quality, but to some that may not be so important).

11-06-2012, 06:35 AM   #17
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When you compare the DP review scores and conclude that A is better than B, you may well be comparing chalk and cheese. That Nokia Pureview got a gold award. Does that mean it's as good an imaging device as the 5D MkIII? Nope. It means it's a bloody good camera phone.

The MkII is currently available for a tempting price. Best deal I've seen for the body plus the highly desirable 24-105mm F4 L is around £1700. The only problem is you're buying four year old tech in a market where things get obsolete really quickly. That said, it's damned good four year old tech. Successful too. And the people who bought it aren't know-nothing Rebel users - they are pros and enthusiasts who can put up with its limitations because it does what they need it to. Not sure that the MkIII justifies the extra cost.

6D looks pretty OK too. 20.2MPx should be plenty: 24MPx is only 10% more resolution on each side, not something you'd really notice in practice. On-board wi-fi opens up a lot of possibilities: wireless tethering, for example.
11-06-2012, 06:45 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
i think people here overlook one huge advantage of FF: Wide angle. Yes, there are wide angle lenses for APS-C cameras, but they are usually new. You can't just pick up an old wide angle lens. Also a 50mm lens will stay a 50mm lens. If you want to shoot with a fast 50mm on an APS-C camera, well, there is the 31mm Limited that equals 50mm lenses. But a 50mm 1.8 for Canon costs like 100 dollar, the Limited is at least 10x as much (yes, it is of much higher build quality, but to some that may not be so important).
Honestly, the better comparison is the 35 f2.4 that Pentax offers. Sure it is slower in aperture, but the photos that come from it are more pleasing than those from Canon's 50mm f1.8, which tends to have really jarring rendering of out of focus areas. All in all, it really depends on what you plan to do with wide angles. I shoot a lot of landscapes and for me, the DA 15 is a perfect field of view. Wider tends to get distorted. And I shoot at f8. For someone else, the lack of narrow depth of field and wide angle could be a big deal, but for most people it really isn't a deal breaker one way or the other.
11-06-2012, 09:05 AM   #19
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I humbly submit to the court that comparing cameras based on a rating index on some web site, no matter how popular or trustworthy is silly. The actual aspects of the camera that are important for a specific photographer have to be examined:
  1. Ergonomics
  2. Image quality
  3. Availability and quality of local service
  4. Size/Weight/Price
  5. ...

This list may go on for quite a while...

Here is a point ponder. Among other things I chose Ricoh GXR over other similar offerings because it produced DNG files natively. Obviously a minor point but it plays a role for me personally. Such things are not found on review sites... At best it gets a mention.

IMO, the decision is very hard here. The choice is not between K-5 or 5DMIII - but rather between two systems which are very different. Which one to choose - if I were me today and had the money, I'd choose Canon.

11-06-2012, 09:18 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpartanWarrior Quote
Sorry guys crop cameras just can't cut it compared to FF, I have K5 5D II and 5D III, here are a couple tests with the K5 and 5D II.
Very impressive. The K-5 is a complete mush whereas the 5D/MII has plenty of detail.
Any idea if the 5D Mark III is better than the II?

Added later...

Okay never mind...
I just looked at the SNR DxoMarks between these camera's and there's something to be said about this.
No clue why your images look the way they do but I'd say something is terribly wrong with the K-5 sample at this point:


Last edited by JohnBee; 11-06-2012 at 09:46 AM.
11-06-2012, 09:29 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Very impressive. The K-5 is a complete mush whereas the 5D/MII has plenty of detail.
Any idea if the 5D Mark III is better than the II?
OK. Gonna take issue w. the "complete mush" bit.

Here's an image taken with the K-5 at ISO 12800:


Looks OK to me. Looked pretty decent at a larger size too.
11-06-2012, 12:25 PM   #22
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Last edited by beholder3; 08-12-2013 at 01:38 AM.
11-06-2012, 03:57 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I wonder why it's always the equipment which fails shots and the photographer who makes great shots...
Thanks for setting the record straight.
That looks more along the lines of what I'd expect to see in this case.

11-06-2012, 05:04 PM   #24
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A while ago I had to clean up several hundred high-ISO 5D2 shots on behalf of a friend who commissioned another photog to do a bunch of portraits of orchestra musicians in a variety of dim, rustic interiors.

Based on that experience, I believe that the K-5 is capable of performing as well, if not better, than the 5D2 at high ISO. It's not just the SNR of the K-5 vs the 5D2, it's also the lack of DR in the 5D2, and the horrid banding noise of the 5D2 in any shadow at ISO past about 1600 that destroys detail and is a pain to clean up. I can't post any of those 5D2 examples since they aren't mine to post, unfortunately.

What I can post are two nothing special but illustrative snaps of decent K-5 detail at 12800 ISO:


Vulgargrad - Lantern parade Carnivale Stage


Setting up - The Good Ship - Lantern Parade Carnivale Stage

Last edited by rawr; 11-06-2012 at 05:15 PM.
11-06-2012, 05:19 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
i think people here overlook one huge advantage of FF: Wide angle.
True, but on the other hand, crop has a tele advantage. And the cameras are smaller/lighter. I think Pentax lenses would also be cheaper if they would be produced in the kind of numbers that Canikon lenses are. But you are right, I wish Pentax would make a couple faster and wider primes. Though, the Pentax 10-17, 12-24, 14mm, 15mm are all pretty wide. Or the Sigma 8-16.
11-06-2012, 10:43 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
A while ago I had to clean up several hundred high-ISO 5D2 shots on behalf of a friend who commissioned another photog to do a bunch of portraits of orchestra musicians in a variety of dim, rustic interiors.

Based on that experience, I believe that the K-5 is capable of performing as well, if not better, than the 5D2 at high ISO. It's not just the SNR of the K-5 vs the 5D2, it's also the lack of DR in the 5D2, and the horrid banding noise of the 5D2 in any shadow at ISO past about 1600 that destroys detail and is a pain to clean up. I can't post any of those 5D2 examples since they aren't mine to post, unfortunately.
I recently shot a swimming event where I was up to 12,800 ISO on my K5 due to the terrible lighting and slow tele lens. I had my 5DII with me as well with the 24-105 (one of my fav lenses) for non-tele shots. I also had that ISO cranked up pretty high (I think 6400?) I found that I somewhat preferred the noise on the K5 images, even though I think the 5DII is supposed to beat it at high ISO.

There was a pro freelancer there with a 5DIII and the 70-200 f/2.8. He had just upgraded from the 5DII and said that the 5DIII was a huge upgrade for his needs (mostly due to the AF) and he was very happy with it.

I do still prefer the 5DII for my landscapes due to the extra bit of res and sharpness the 5DII gives, but I am ready to trade it out for the D600 at this point. If I were shooting sports or something, I'd have to give another look to the 5DIII, but for my needs, Nikon is better.

Keep in mind that I judge this on first hand experience with the 5DII and K5 Classic, and armchair reading about the pros and cons of the D600 and 5DIII.

Last edited by sb in ak; 11-06-2012 at 10:48 PM.
11-07-2012, 01:20 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by sb in ak Quote
the 24-105 (one of my fav lenses)
I've been looking at that lens from afar and admiring it for a long time.
It seems a great piece of glass, and very useful for event shooting.

As with the 24-105L on Canon, I notice with very high-ISO on the K-5 (any camera, probably) the results are always much better with higher quality glass. Maybe it's the generally better transmission of colours and light in good glass, as well as the sharpness, that helps the sensor handle high ISO signal degradation better.
11-07-2012, 04:05 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by sb in ak Quote
but I am ready to trade it out for the D600 at this point.
It's worth it. Finally got a chance to put mine through some typical shooting conditions down at Arches National Park for 4 days. Quite impressed with the results. If/when I get the K-5II, K-5IIs or K-30, I know I will be spending a ton of time comparing the two & will gladly post here for any who care. I have yet to run across any comparisons between any of the above and the D600.
11-07-2012, 04:50 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I've been looking at that lens from afar and admiring it for a long time.
It seems a great piece of glass, and very useful for event shooting.
I'm sure a set of primes are better, but I love the 24-105L because it's a pretty strong performer across that entire range. My only complaint is that the bokeh is not the best ever, but you can't really have everything.

QuoteOriginally posted by NVSteve Quote
It's worth it. Finally got a chance to put mine through some typical shooting conditions down at Arches National Park for 4 days. Quite impressed with the results. If/when I get the K-5II, K-5IIs or K-30, I know I will be spending a ton of time comparing the two & will gladly post here for any who care. I have yet to run across any comparisons between any of the above and the D600.
I've pretty much made up my mind to switch to the D600. I'd love the D800 have a hard time justifying the price when I was pretty happy with the 5DII res. The only thing holding me back with the D600 are the complaints about oil getting sprayed on the sensor (more than usual). I figure that is just a first adoper issue and hopefully things will get cleared up in a month.

So the 24-105L will probably be for sale pretty soon
11-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by sb in ak Quote
The only thing holding me back with the D600 are the complaints about oil getting sprayed on the sensor (more than usual). I figure that is just a first adoper issue and hopefully things will get cleared up in a month.
Pretty sure I have a couple of oil stains as well, as far as I can tell. I've only noticed them in a few pictures so far at 100%. I need to sit down and do a good wet cleaning, as everything I've seen suggests that even oil stains can be cleared. I wouldn't let it make you rethink your purchase-from what I've seen, a stain or two and a bit of stubborn dust is pretty common with the majority of newer full frames. Annoying, yes, but at least it can be taken care of at home.
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