Adobe Camera Raw Support For K-5II/s

neil · 11-03-2012, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Because it was already in the firmware. If you look at what Ricoh was doing before they bought Pentax you will notice they were going to DNG exclusively. There just isn't any reason to include a proprietary format, Pentax isn't trying to sell you software like Nikon or Canon, and DNG is widely supported by third party software the moment the camera is released.

OK - So it was just your personal opinion. Thanks for clarifying/sharing.

neil · 11-09-2012, 10:27 AM

ACR now has a release candidate that supports the K-5 II & K-5 IIs.

Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 7.3 Beta | digital camera raw file support - Adobe Labs

JinDesu · 11-09-2012, 10:36 AM

Fantastic - get even more out of those files.

**Eric Seavey** · 11-10-2012, 08:46 AM

One thing that bothers me with photoshop is that the new Raw plugins are not compatible with earlier versions of photoshop. So, if you want to use camera raw 7.3 to support the new Pentax models, you need to upgrade your Photoshop CS5 to CS6, unless you want to use dng raw files. Unfortunately, when I imported dng files in the past, it didn't have a lot of exif info that the PEF files do have. Not sure if this has changed.

neil · 11-10-2012, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by Eric Seavey

One thing that bothers me with photoshop is that the new Raw plugins are not compatible with earlier versions of photoshop. So, if you want to use camera raw 7.3 to support the new Pentax models, you need to upgrade your Photoshop CS5 to CS6, unless you want to use dng raw files. Unfortunately, when I imported dng files in the past, it didn't have a lot of exif info that the PEF files do have. Not sure if this has changed.

Yeah, how dare they! They should provide free updates for life!

**Eric Seavey** · 11-11-2012, 07:55 AM

I would happily pay for the camera raw plugin updates separate from the whole Photoshop package. Right now I am happy with CS5, it is lousy that new camera raw files are simply not supported. Does that warrant having to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade the whole program? I know they need to stay in business, but then a while back, Adobe was also considering not having the upgrade pricing anymore.

NewTake · 03-03-2013, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I open DNG from K-5IIs in CS5 without any problem.

Just to clarify, it is not that k-5 iis DNG files don't open in CS5, but the colors/white balance are definitely off. For example, if you edit a DNG in Lightroom (which is updated for the k-5 IIs), then directly export it to CS5, the photo looks noticeably different then it did in Lightroom. I have to now export it into a different program (like Nik Viveza) then save it without doing anything, then export that TIF file into PS5, to make it look and remain the same. Pretty dang tedious and very shady on Adobe's part if you ask me, not to update camera RAW for PS5. It isnt that old, and I certainly don't want to upgrade to PS6, just for that reason.

...and yes neil, I feel that these minor updates should also be included for older versions. There is a difference between update and upgrade. You shouldnt have to upgrade to get basic functionality from RAW files that come from newly released cameras. Just like when you upgrade your computer's OS, they typically will update at least the previous version of the software to make it compatible so you dont have to upgrade to the newest one. Should fall along those same lines, I am totally with you Eric!

Last edited by NewTake; 03-03-2013 at 10:19 AM.

Anvh · 03-06-2013, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by NewTake

Just to clarify, it is not that k-5 iis DNG files don't open in CS5, but the colors/white balance are definitely off. For example, if you edit a DNG in Lightroom (which is updated for the k-5 IIs), then directly export it to CS5, the photo looks noticeably different then it did in Lightroom. I have to now export it into a different program (like Nik Viveza) then save it without doing anything, then export that TIF file into PS5, to make it look and remain the same. Pretty dang tedious and very shady on Adobe's part if you ask me, not to update camera RAW for PS5. It isnt that old, and I certainly don't want to upgrade to PS6, just for that reason.

Never had that problem to be honest.
Just to check, you did open the image with lightroom adjustments because there is also an option to open the image with no adjustments for example.

One other thing i can think of is that you aren't using colour management inside photoshop maybe?

NewTake · 03-07-2013, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

Never had that problem to be honest.
Just to check, you did open the image with lightroom adjustments because there is also an option to open the image with no adjustments for example.

One other thing i can think of is that you aren't using colour management inside photoshop maybe?

I do have it set to open with Lightroom adjustments, my working color space in PS5 is Prophoto and that is the color space I use to export my files to in all of my Lightroom plugins.

I have never had that problem either, until I got the k5 iis. All my k7 files work fine, as they are supported under my version of camera raw.

Anvh, are you shooting with a k5 iis?

Anvh · 03-07-2013, 11:04 AM

No i don't but in theorie lightroom and photoshop shouldnt handle the files differently.
What lightroom does is convert the file to TIFF or PSD so they are independent from any camera profile at that point.

NewTake · 03-08-2013, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

No i don't but in theorie lightroom and photoshop shouldnt handle the files differently.
What lightroom does is convert the file to TIFF or PSD so they are independent from any camera profile at that point.

I totally agree with you… in theory it should not work this way, and it doesn’t for all of my third party plugins in Lightroom. I wouldn’t have come to this conclusion on my own but found a few posts on the net indicating it is indeed the camera raw version of PS5 that is causing it. PS5 must somehow hold on to some of the RAW data when it is being converted to a TIF and transferred from Lightroom to PS5. I am confident this is the issue as the only thing that has changed is that I am using RAW DNG files from the iis vs my k7. Again, my k7 RAW files do not do this, nor my older camera RAW files. Oh well, I will either just have to edit my files in lightroom, then export them to my desktop, then bring them back in, or export to one of my 3rd party plugins then export that file into PS5. In those situations this issue does not occur, it is only when I am exporting from a k5 iis RAW file to a TIF directly into PS5.

Anvh · 03-08-2013, 08:34 AM

But there simply shouldn't be a difference in first exporting as tiff to the desktop and then opening in PS5 or to export and open in PS5 as a tiff...

What are your export settings for lightroom, photoshop uses a separate setting ,maybe there is the problem?

NewTake · 03-09-2013, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

But there simply shouldn't be a difference in first exporting as tiff to the desktop and then opening in PS5 or to export and open in PS5 as a tiff...

What are your export settings for lightroom, photoshop uses a separate setting ,maybe there is the problem?

Hi Anvh, my settings in both programs have not changed, I have been using this workflow for quite some time, only my camera has changed. All my k-01, k7, and k10d dng files work fine between the two (all supported DNG's under PS5). I actually contacted Adobe and they confirmed the issue is in fact that PS5 does not support the k-5 iis DNG files (CR7). Their workaround was pretty much what I thought. Edit photos in Lightroom 4, export to TIF to pc, then edit the TIF's in PS5. I don't like it, but I dont dislike it enough to upgrade to PS6.

EDIT: I was just editing some RAW files from my k-7... When I exported to PS5 as TIF a status bar came up stating "Reading Camera RAW Format," in PS5. Now I remember seeing this before, when my computer is moving a little slow, when I have a lot of other programs running. I think normally it just opens it so quick it does not display that status bar. I guess this is essentially the proof that it still interacts with Camera RAW program, even when exporting as TIF directly into PS5. I am not exactly sure of the reason, but to me this does confirm what Adobe told me and what I have read elsewhere. (again, the k-7 DNG files that I export do not change in appearance in PS5). I will give Adobe the benefit of the doubt that they actually have a reason for doing this.

Anvh · 03-09-2013, 09:20 AM

Hmm intersting i thought the redering of the RAW files were all done inside Lightroom.
Thanks for clearing that up.

One way that might work to get them in line is to use the embeded profile in lightroom instead of adobe, this setting is under camera profile, last tab in the developing module.

03-09-2013, 08:30 AM	#28
NewTake Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 47	Originally posted by Anvh But there simply shouldn't be a difference in first exporting as tiff to the desktop and then opening in PS5 or to export and open in PS5 as a tiff... What are your export settings for lightroom, photoshop uses a separate setting ,maybe there is the problem? Hi Anvh, my settings in both programs have not changed, I have been using this workflow for quite some time, only my camera has changed. All my k-01, k7, and k10d dng files work fine between the two (all supported DNG's under PS5). I actually contacted Adobe and they confirmed the issue is in fact that PS5 does not support the k-5 iis DNG files (CR7). Their workaround was pretty much what I thought. Edit photos in Lightroom 4, export to TIF to pc, then edit the TIF's in PS5. I don't like it, but I dont dislike it enough to upgrade to PS6. EDIT: I was just editing some RAW files from my k-7... When I exported to PS5 as TIF a status bar came up stating "Reading Camera RAW Format," in PS5. Now I remember seeing this before, when my computer is moving a little slow, when I have a lot of other programs running. I think normally it just opens it so quick it does not display that status bar. I guess this is essentially the proof that it still interacts with Camera RAW program, even when exporting as TIF directly into PS5. I am not exactly sure of the reason, but to me this does confirm what Adobe told me and what I have read elsewhere. (again, the k-7 DNG files that I export do not change in appearance in PS5). I will give Adobe the benefit of the doubt that they actually have a reason for doing this. Last edited by NewTake; 03-09-2013 at 09:09 AM.

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11-03-2012, 09:03 PM	#16
neil Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 182	Originally posted by boriscleto Because it was already in the firmware. If you look at what Ricoh was doing before they bought Pentax you will notice they were going to DNG exclusively. There just isn't any reason to include a proprietary format, Pentax isn't trying to sell you software like Nikon or Canon, and DNG is widely supported by third party software the moment the camera is released. OK - So it was just your personal opinion. Thanks for clarifying/sharing.

11-09-2012, 10:27 AM	#17
neil Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 182	ACR now has a release candidate that supports the K-5 II & K-5 IIs. Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 7.3 Beta \| digital camera raw file support - Adobe Labs

11-09-2012, 10:36 AM	#18
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Fantastic - get even more out of those files.

11-10-2012, 08:46 AM	#19
Eric Seavey Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Irvine, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 307	One thing that bothers me with photoshop is that the new Raw plugins are not compatible with earlier versions of photoshop. So, if you want to use camera raw 7.3 to support the new Pentax models, you need to upgrade your Photoshop CS5 to CS6, unless you want to use dng raw files. Unfortunately, when I imported dng files in the past, it didn't have a lot of exif info that the PEF files do have. Not sure if this has changed.

11-10-2012, 09:58 AM	#20
neil Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 182	Originally posted by Eric Seavey One thing that bothers me with photoshop is that the new Raw plugins are not compatible with earlier versions of photoshop. So, if you want to use camera raw 7.3 to support the new Pentax models, you need to upgrade your Photoshop CS5 to CS6, unless you want to use dng raw files. Unfortunately, when I imported dng files in the past, it didn't have a lot of exif info that the PEF files do have. Not sure if this has changed. Yeah, how dare they! They should provide free updates for life!

11-11-2012, 07:55 AM	#21
Eric Seavey Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Irvine, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 307	I would happily pay for the camera raw plugin updates separate from the whole Photoshop package. Right now I am happy with CS5, it is lousy that new camera raw files are simply not supported. Does that warrant having to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade the whole program? I know they need to stay in business, but then a while back, Adobe was also considering not having the upgrade pricing anymore.

03-03-2013, 10:12 AM	#22
NewTake Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 47	Originally posted by ogl I open DNG from K-5IIs in CS5 without any problem. Just to clarify, it is not that k-5 iis DNG files don't open in CS5, but the colors/white balance are definitely off. For example, if you edit a DNG in Lightroom (which is updated for the k-5 IIs), then directly export it to CS5, the photo looks noticeably different then it did in Lightroom. I have to now export it into a different program (like Nik Viveza) then save it without doing anything, then export that TIF file into PS5, to make it look and remain the same. Pretty dang tedious and very shady on Adobe's part if you ask me, not to update camera RAW for PS5. It isnt that old, and I certainly don't want to upgrade to PS6, just for that reason. ...and yes neil, I feel that these minor updates should also be included for older versions. There is a difference between update and upgrade. You shouldnt have to upgrade to get basic functionality from RAW files that come from newly released cameras. Just like when you upgrade your computer's OS, they typically will update at least the previous version of the software to make it compatible so you dont have to upgrade to the newest one. Should fall along those same lines, I am totally with you Eric! Last edited by NewTake; 03-03-2013 at 10:19 AM.

03-06-2013, 08:24 AM	#23
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by NewTake Just to clarify, it is not that k-5 iis DNG files don't open in CS5, but the colors/white balance are definitely off. For example, if you edit a DNG in Lightroom (which is updated for the k-5 IIs), then directly export it to CS5, the photo looks noticeably different then it did in Lightroom. I have to now export it into a different program (like Nik Viveza) then save it without doing anything, then export that TIF file into PS5, to make it look and remain the same. Pretty dang tedious and very shady on Adobe's part if you ask me, not to update camera RAW for PS5. It isnt that old, and I certainly don't want to upgrade to PS6, just for that reason. Never had that problem to be honest. Just to check, you did open the image with lightroom adjustments because there is also an option to open the image with no adjustments for example. One other thing i can think of is that you aren't using colour management inside photoshop maybe?

03-07-2013, 08:16 AM	#24
NewTake Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 47	Originally posted by Anvh Never had that problem to be honest. Just to check, you did open the image with lightroom adjustments because there is also an option to open the image with no adjustments for example. One other thing i can think of is that you aren't using colour management inside photoshop maybe? I do have it set to open with Lightroom adjustments, my working color space in PS5 is Prophoto and that is the color space I use to export my files to in all of my Lightroom plugins. I have never had that problem either, until I got the k5 iis. All my k7 files work fine, as they are supported under my version of camera raw. Anvh, are you shooting with a k5 iis?

03-07-2013, 11:04 AM	#25
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	No i don't but in theorie lightroom and photoshop shouldnt handle the files differently. What lightroom does is convert the file to TIFF or PSD so they are independent from any camera profile at that point.

03-08-2013, 07:22 AM	#26
NewTake Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 47	Originally posted by Anvh No i don't but in theorie lightroom and photoshop shouldnt handle the files differently. What lightroom does is convert the file to TIFF or PSD so they are independent from any camera profile at that point. I totally agree with you… in theory it should not work this way, and it doesn’t for all of my third party plugins in Lightroom. I wouldn’t have come to this conclusion on my own but found a few posts on the net indicating it is indeed the camera raw version of PS5 that is causing it. PS5 must somehow hold on to some of the RAW data when it is being converted to a TIF and transferred from Lightroom to PS5. I am confident this is the issue as the only thing that has changed is that I am using RAW DNG files from the iis vs my k7. Again, my k7 RAW files do not do this, nor my older camera RAW files. Oh well, I will either just have to edit my files in lightroom, then export them to my desktop, then bring them back in, or export to one of my 3rd party plugins then export that file into PS5. In those situations this issue does not occur, it is only when I am exporting from a k5 iis RAW file to a TIF directly into PS5.

03-08-2013, 08:34 AM	#27
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	But there simply shouldn't be a difference in first exporting as tiff to the desktop and then opening in PS5 or to export and open in PS5 as a tiff... What are your export settings for lightroom, photoshop uses a separate setting ,maybe there is the problem?

03-09-2013, 09:20 AM	#29
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Hmm intersting i thought the redering of the RAW files were all done inside Lightroom. Thanks for clearing that up. One way that might work to get them in line is to use the embeded profile in lightroom instead of adobe, this setting is under camera profile, last tab in the developing module.